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This year we can end the death penalty in California

paulgraham.com

21–30 of 242 posts

Re: This year we can end the death penalty in California

#21
The single best reason why the death penalty should be abolished is because it does not have an 'undo' button. It's bad enough if people get jailed for a long time when they are innocent, it is much worse when they're murdered by the state for crimes they did not commit.

Other important work done:

http://www.innocenceproject.org/

edit: sad to see this thread flagged off the homepage.

Re: This year we can end the death penalty in California

#22
I like his message mainly because I agree with the death penalty in principle. If you want to be a shitty human being, with 7B people on the planet we don't really need you.

But, in practice, we will never get it 100% right. Probability of killing an innocent person will always be >0.

For that reason alone, we should get rid of it.

Re: This year we can end the death penalty in California

#23
Execution is cathartic but hardly effective. Clearly it does not deter murderers as they believe they will either get away with it or they simply don't care as long as they satisfy their need to kill.

The wrong people can be executed and unlike a prison sentence, there's no going back.

Appeals can last for decades and waste enormous amounts of time and money.

End the death penalty. It's just not worth it.

Re: This year we can end the death penalty in California

#25
I don't find the fact that some people are found innocent to be a convincing reason to be against the death penalty. The replacement, which is life in prison, strikes me as even less appealing. How is sending someone to jail and leaving them there for 20 years only to figure out that people fucked up and the guy wasn't actually guilty - "Sorry chap, but it's only a third of your life we've ripped away from you, you've still got one third left!" - any better? I'd rather be dead.

Re: This year we can end the death penalty in California

#27
post #2

Note that this would only end it for crimes that fall under the state's jurisdiction. For things like transporting people across state lines to kill them or using a weapon of mass destruction in a manner detrimental to interstate commerce, the death penalty could still apply on a federal level.

For things like transporting people across state lines to kill them...

I know all the arguments against the death penalty, but I just can't manage to get myself upset that there is a death penalty for such things.

Re: This year we can end the death penalty in California

#28
Back in the day, there was a serial killer named Ted Bundy. He killed a number of women, was imprisoned, escaped (twice) and killed at least three more people.

That kind of incident makes the problem much more complicated. The typical argument against the death penalty is that sometimes innocent people are executed. And it's true, and it's horrible. But if you don't execute them, then the alternative is that they should be in prison for the rest of their life. If they're innocent, that's still pretty horrible. The real objective is to keep innocent people from being convicted in the first place.

But like many other situations, the false positive rate and the false negative rate are inversely correlated. How many guilty people should we free to avoid sending one innocent person to prison? The obvious answer is "as many as we have to" - it's not acceptable to have innocent people in prison. But if we're talking about serial killers, that question becomes "How many innocent people do we want to see dead on the streets to avoid sending one innocent person to prison?"

Back to the death penalty. Sometimes guilty people escape, too, and sometimes they kill people after they escape. Executed people don't kill anyone ever again. So, how many innocent people are you willing to execute in order to prevent innocent people dying on the streets?

This stuff is very difficult. But given less-than-perfect prisons, I can see a case for keeping the death penalty for serial killers.

Re: This year we can end the death penalty in California

#30

California already removed the death penalty in 1972 then later reinstated it. This resulted in killers like Charles Mason being relieved from execution and denying many victim's family member from obtaining a measure of justice they wanted. Since being reinstated only 13 people have been executed. And none in the past 10 years. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_Californ...

> This resulted in killers like Charles Mason being relieved from execution and denying many victim's family member from obtaining a measure of justice they wanted.

That qualifies more as 'revenge' than as 'justice'.

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