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No One Saw Tesla’s Solar Roof Coming

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Re: No One Saw Tesla’s Solar Roof Coming

#261

Post by jinglebells »

Graphon1 wrote: post #167
jomamaxx wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From a popular perspective - you are maybe right - they 'sexified' something not quite so sexy. However - I suggest this won't work out like the iPhone. Why? Because --> 'new roofs' are not built that often, by that I mean new homes and roofing replacements. And the construction industry has totally different dynamics. Putting on a 'regular' new roof is expensive. Most people won't consider this tech unless their hom…

Another major difference: iPhone was a platform. As more people bought the iphone, - the phone became more attractive to 3rd party accessory makers (protective cases, cables, etc) and apps makers. - the phone itself became more valuable to owners, as more complementary products became available. - the phone became more valuable to Apple, who could get feedback and make the phone better. The hockey stick on the analog…

Surely the complimentary products are ones compatible with the Tesla connector.

Electric motorcycle or RV for the weekend or electric lawn mower. Just throwing it out there.

Re: No One Saw Tesla’s Solar Roof Coming

#262

Post by webscaleizfun »

perilunar wrote: post #178
pbh101 wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The government is not literally just 'us.' It's a contentious idea: "government is just the word for the things we choose to do together" was oft-repeated by Rep. Barney Frank. He was repeating it because not everyone agrees. I think the primary problem of government funding is waste and the potential for corruption. Waste because the government is more immune to profit motive and thus can throw good money after bad…

>"government is just the word for the things we choose to do together" Definitely contentious. A more correct formulation is "government is just the word for the things we are forced to do together"

Go live where there is no government, its great to act so infringed upon by the government in the place in which you currently reside, but you do have choices.

Not saying its a rosy picture to live in an area with no publicly owned infrastructure, or any baseline public services like water, sewer, trash, education, courts, etc, but there are places in Latin America which have legal carveouts for a non-governmentally controlled area to exist, without taxes, laws or infrastructure.

Unless you are willing to live & fight for your beliefs, they are absolutely worthless, Martin Luther King & Cesar Chavez didn't accomplish anything sitting at home, they took to the streets and organized like minded people to stand with them and fight for the way things ought to be, regardless what businesses or government tried to do.

Re: No One Saw Tesla’s Solar Roof Coming

#263

Post by webscaleizfun »

fennecfoxen wrote: post #239
perilunar wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"government is just the word for the things we choose to do together" Definitely contentious. A more correct formulation is "government is just the word for the things we are forced to do together"

More than contentious, tendentious . It's a choice about how to organize your ideology and world-view, but it's presented as an inarguable fact of existence. It's also what a small left-leaning majority says to defend themselves and shut up their detractors while they inflict their will on the minority over an issue that's contentious (e.g. our recent health care reform). And you'll notice that when legislation they…

Dude, grow up. You do not have to live under govt rule, if you choose to follow an ideology that would rather see government not exist, you can and should fully adhere to your ideology and move to such an area. They do exist in Latin America and other places, and you are not living your ideology or helping it in any way if you won't support it in the most basic of ways.

Re: No One Saw Tesla’s Solar Roof Coming

#264

Post by webscaleizfun »

Tempest1981 wrote: post #229
refurb wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A big part is how gov't money is doled out. It forces the gov't to pick winners and losers. And since politics always seems to permeate everything the gov't does, people start to question the decisions. Even if it's something as straightforward as "green credits", the process can always be perverted to advantage one business over another.

It's a tough balance. Often we (in the US) don't invest, then complain when jobs shift to other countries. We've seen so much bashing of $0.54 billion for Solyndra (a tiny gamble); but now most solar panels are made in China. Need to gamble, but wisely.

Not every investment will be successful either, as any person with a basic sense of business will know.

Re: No One Saw Tesla’s Solar Roof Coming

#265

Post by anexprogrammer »

m-i-l wrote: post #250
anexprogrammer wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> roofs are replaced by the majority of insured homeowners every 10 years or less Well I was going to be astonished, but Google and Wikipedia seem to tell me US roofs are a consumable and usually asphalt! Most UK roofs are tile, slate if older, and asphalt shingles reserved for sheds, garden structures etc. Tile lifespan should be 60+ years. As much as I like the improved aesthetics I don't see the tiles making much…

> Most UK roofs are tile, slate if older, and asphalt shingles reserved for sheds, garden structures etc. Tile lifespan should be 60+ years. Asphalt for the better quality sheds, corrugated iron for the lower quality sheds:-) Typical UK roof lifespan I've been quoted is around 50 years (I know because our roof is starting to need replacing and was last replaced in the 1970s). > As much as I like the improved aestheti…

Could be 50. It's mostly a working minimum for the clay deteriorating I think. Even when you see a 20s estate it's uncommon to see replacements, and half of those are rot in the timber or some such. Blocking up ventilation is a great way to cause that rot as some find the hard way. 60s and 70s houses may need earlier - quality wasn't great with some of those buildings.

Great point about conservation areas, never occured to me. The slate looking one is convincing enough for the national parks. The unique pattern printing should appeal to the most fussy NIMBY. Shame they won't last 150 yrs like slate.

Re: No One Saw Tesla’s Solar Roof Coming

#266

Post by pbh101 »

webscaleizfun wrote: post #262
perilunar wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"government is just the word for the things we choose to do together" Definitely contentious. A more correct formulation is "government is just the word for the things we are forced to do together"

Go live where there is no government, its great to act so infringed upon by the government in the place in which you currently reside, but you do have choices. Not saying its a rosy picture to live in an area with no publicly owned infrastructure, or any baseline public services like water, sewer, trash, education, courts, etc, but there are places in Latin America which have legal carveouts for a non-governmentally…

It doesn't necessarily follow from what perilunar or fennecfoxen said that they think 'no government' is the right answer: even if you think the government policy-making wields force, that can just mean the bar for what government should be doing is higher, not that nothing at all ever clears that bar.

Example: one could characterize investment in cleantech as hedge fund-like speculation (other example: US monetary policy), albeit with the dividends paid to the American economy (and some larger proportion to Tesla etc shareholders). I think reasonable people can disagree over whether that is an appopriate action for a government to take (i.e. whether it is in their purview/mandate) separate from whether other issues are (utilities, defense, welfare, etc). A rejection of one is not a rejection of all, and similarly support for one is not support for all.

(Speaking generally: I don't know the specific views of perilunar or fennecfoxen)

Re: No One Saw Tesla’s Solar Roof Coming

#267

Post by fennecfoxen »

webscaleizfun wrote: post #263
fennecfoxen wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More than contentious, tendentious . It's a choice about how to organize your ideology and world-view, but it's presented as an inarguable fact of existence. It's also what a small left-leaning majority says to defend themselves and shut up their detractors while they inflict their will on the minority over an issue that's contentious (e.g. our recent health care reform). And you'll notice that when legislation they…

Dude, grow up. You do not have to live under govt rule, if you choose to follow an ideology that would rather see government not exist, you can and should fully adhere to your ideology and move to such an area. They do exist in Latin America and other places, and you are not living your ideology or helping it in any way if you won't support it in the most basic of ways.

>> It's also what a small left-leaning majority says to defend themselves and shut up their detractors

> Dude, grow up

QED. Thanks, dude.

Re: No One Saw Tesla’s Solar Roof Coming

#268

Post by tlrobinson »

webscaleizfun wrote: post #259
tlrobinson wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If we were to make, say, traffic signals more efficient by synchronizing them, or somehow increase capacity on freeways, people would just drive more. Or say, invent self-driving cars...

That will just clog roads more, doesn't matter how much you mechanize it. Self driving cars will induce massive amounts of demand piled atop the latent demand that already exists for driving on nearly every arterial and freeway in cities, and even if everything was perfect, with cars driving at an optimal 45mph with minimal stopping distance, you can only move 2200 cars an hour per lane [1] and that scales non-linear…

Indeed, that's the point I was hinting at: self-driving cars have the potential to increase carbon emissions, even the electric ones, due to increased usage and congestion.

Has Elon Musk publicly addressed this issue at all?

Self-driving cars are inevitable, so they may as well be electric. But if Tesla pulls the industry into the self-driving age before the majority of cars are electric they could actually be doing more harm than good. Perhaps self-driving cars should be required to be electric.

Re: No One Saw Tesla’s Solar Roof Coming

#269

Post by ebalit »

prewett wrote: post #150
bduerst wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure. Rumor mill has it that SC has been struggling, and the recent buyout from Tesla makes it look like Musk is transferring cash to himself. Musk talks alot , and I'm still on the fence as to whether this is vaporware meant to distract from that.

It sounded like this was condensedware/liquidware (what's the opposite of vaporware?), namely that the event had actual houses with actual manufactured, installed solar roofs in the form of traditional roofs. Presumably there were at least four of them, the four tiles pictured. There is a picture of what appears to be an actual house, presumably with a solar roof.

Hardware should do.

Re: No One Saw Tesla’s Solar Roof Coming

#270

Post by wtvanhest »

matt_kantor wrote: post #198
wtvanhest wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess what confuses me is that most people with enough money to drive a Tesla keep it in a garage. I guess most offices probably don't have parking garages in suburbia, but I was surprised to hit control F "garage" on these comments and not see a single mention... There are lots of upsides for future research and gained efficiency in the future though. Especially as electric moves toward big trucks down the road. (…

Your comment is what confuses me. Can you explain how keeping a Tesla car in a garage is related to the parent comment about Elon's product design/marketing/business strategies?

Solar panels do not work well when the car is always garaged. It seems like a gimmick rather than a solid feature that the user actually wants.
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