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No One Saw Tesla’s Solar Roof Coming

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Re: No One Saw Tesla’s Solar Roof Coming

#241

Post by Symbiote »

aianus wrote: post #158
jackmott wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

fossil fuel industry people are somehow able to forget that they get subsidies right now every time they comment about clean tech subsidies.

Can anyone explain to me these oft-mentioned government subsidies on fossil fuels? Gas has 25% taxes where I live. Surely that's the opposite of 'subsidizing' it (vs, for example, electricity which is taxed at 5%). What am I missing?

Gas meaning petrol?

The tax is over 200% in most of the European Union, yet still doesn't fully cover the cost of roads and the external effects of pollution.

Some countries also subsidise it, such as by paying for prospecting or research.

Re: No One Saw Tesla’s Solar Roof Coming

#242

Post by cc81 »

philipkglass wrote: post #192
josinalvo wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard these numbers from Forbes come from a very pro-nuclear estimate. Does anyone more knowledgeable care to comment? What other estimates are there? How are they calculated?

I would like to see the original inputs that went into the calculation myself. I've searched quite a bit without being able to locate them. As far as I can tell, it's calculated by dividing the (very low) number of acute fatalities from civilian nuclear accidents by the (very high) number of terawatt hours generated by civilian nuclear power plants. If I'm correct that would kind-of be cheating because they're not co…

And if you compare to mining for coal should you not compare the manufacturing/mining that is required for nuclear and solar too?

Re: No One Saw Tesla’s Solar Roof Coming

#243

Post by skc »

jdcarr wrote: post #208
WalterBright wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a ceramic roof once. Walking on the roof would break the tiles. It made it hard to do maintenance on anything up there. My preference these days would be for a metal roof.

Corrugated iron is infamously loud in rain. What type of metal roof are you considering that wouldn't be such an earsore?

This is true, but I've found that there is nothing quite like sleeping under the oddly soothing sound of heavy rain slamming against corrugated iron roofs.

Re: No One Saw Tesla’s Solar Roof Coming

#244

Post by rconti »

redcap wrote: post #195
tux1968 wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to manufacture, distribute, and install tar shingles too. Is there some reason to think these costs would be higher for solar tech?

I presume there's a difference in manufacturing between these tiles and normal tiles. I also presume there's CO2 costs involved in manufacturing solar cells that aren't present in normal shingles.

Possibly. I'm sure solar is resource intensive. OTOH, tar shingles are literally made of petroleum, which is not great either.

Re: No One Saw Tesla’s Solar Roof Coming

#245

Post by rconti »

caf wrote: post #237
robbrown451 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's pitching it as being basically break even, when electricity costs are factored in. My guess is an awful lot of people can afford this, especially for new construction. Certainly enough to keep up with ability to ramp up manufacturing and training of installers. And then the economies of scale (and hopefully competition) will kick in and it should reach a point where nearly every new house, and nearly every repla…

He's pitching it as being basically break even, when electricity costs are factored in. My guess is an awful lot of people can afford this, especially for new construction. I think this is key - often the pitch that "sure, it's expensive up front but will save you money in the long run" falls on deaf ears when people don't have the disposable income to immediately absorb that large up front cost, but when you're buyi…

You're aware, of course, that SolarCity's entire business model is leasing solar panels back to consumers with no up-front costs, and a net savings, right?

Re: No One Saw Tesla’s Solar Roof Coming

#246

Post by rconti »

FireBeyond wrote: post #202
GregBuchholz wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very cool! It seems like it worked for my place: "0 sq feet available for solar panels Based on 3D modeling of your roof and nearby trees"

I tried an address in Cave Creek AZ. 2000 hours of usable sunlight a year. 4664 sq ft available for panels. Total 20 year savings: $1,000. Seems... underwhelming. Oh, this is for a lease. $2,000 if you have to borrow to install the panels. Still... $100/yr? The only worthwhile benefit is you can afford to pay $21,000 out of pocket.

Those numbers sound way off. My house in Redwood City, CA:

1873 hours of usable sunlight 1561 sqft available for panels (ain't no Cave Creek mansion!) $9000 savings.

I left my electric bill at the default $100 estimate, which is close enough. They only defaulted to 3.5kw system for me, I assume based on my electric costs. 247 sqft. Maybe your costs were too low. There's no way an electric bill on a cave creek mansion is $100/mo. Their rates are lower, but the A/C will kill you. Once I moved the slider to $500/mo it estimates $89,000 savings, for example.

Re: No One Saw Tesla’s Solar Roof Coming

#247

Post by aerovistae »

KKKKkkkk1 wrote: post #110
aerovistae wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another side note: it always annoys me when people insinuate that Musk using government funds is a bad thing. The government is literally just US....it's our money and a collection of individuals from among us who we've appointed to handle the general administration of us and the space we take up. Why should American entrepreneurs, particularly ones doing such an outstanding job of moving technology in a positive dir…

Please do not use the word we in this context. Half of my colleagues are paying very hefty federal and state taxes but do not have the right to vote.

Why don't they have the right to vote? DC?

Re: No One Saw Tesla’s Solar Roof Coming

#248

Post by caf »

rconti wrote: post #245
caf wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's pitching it as being basically break even, when electricity costs are factored in. My guess is an awful lot of people can afford this, especially for new construction. I think this is key - often the pitch that "sure, it's expensive up front but will save you money in the long run" falls on deaf ears when people don't have the disposable income to immediately absorb that large up front cost, but when you're buyi…

You're aware, of course, that SolarCity's entire business model is leasing solar panels back to consumers with no up-front costs, and a net savings, right?

No - I had paid zero attention to SolarCity because their product is not available where I am. I have been following Tesla because their product is.

Re: No One Saw Tesla’s Solar Roof Coming

#249

Post by Maken »

Jugurtha wrote: post #39
philipkglass wrote: post #22

I had serious misgivings when Tesla/SolarCity announced a switch of focus to building-integrated PV. Historically, BIPV is where a PV technology goes to die after it's failed to compete against incumbent module designs. But these have far better aesthetics than previous BIPV efforts. They look better individually and they aren't clumped in one odd shiny patch on the roof like past BIPV. Search for images of solar shi…

> Search for images of solar shingles and you'll see what I mean about previous attempts. The first 9 images Google returned in the top 2 rows for "solar shingles" have 2 pictures from Tesla/SC's presentation. (~22%). The 3 top rows (13 images) contain 3 images from the presentation (~23%). It looks like you're right about the change to come.

I just made the same search, and indeed several of the top images are from the Tesla presentation.

However, what have surprised me more is discovering that"solar shingles" have been a thing for so much time, and there are already some quite decent looking models, even curved ones. Of course, I have never heard about it. Tesla marketing is really far ahead of everyone else.

Re: No One Saw Tesla’s Solar Roof Coming

#250

Post by m-i-l »

anexprogrammer wrote: post #168
slfnflctd wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Roof replacement is quite a dirty business, in more than one sense of the term, and there are regions where whole roofs are replaced by the majority of insured homeowners every 10 years or less. Any dent that can be made in this problem is a good thing, and this looks to be quite a large dent indeed.

> roofs are replaced by the majority of insured homeowners every 10 years or less Well I was going to be astonished, but Google and Wikipedia seem to tell me US roofs are a consumable and usually asphalt! Most UK roofs are tile, slate if older, and asphalt shingles reserved for sheds, garden structures etc. Tile lifespan should be 60+ years. As much as I like the improved aesthetics I don't see the tiles making much…

> Most UK roofs are tile, slate if older, and asphalt shingles reserved for sheds, garden structures etc. Tile lifespan should be 60+ years.

Asphalt for the better quality sheds, corrugated iron for the lower quality sheds:-) Typical UK roof lifespan I've been quoted is around 50 years (I know because our roof is starting to need replacing and was last replaced in the 1970s).

> As much as I like the improved aesthetics I don't see the tiles making much dent in the UK

Actually there is one area in the UK where they may make an impact - conservation areas. The stricter ones prohibit solar panels on street-facing roofs, but may conceivably allow the solar tiles. Plus I suspect that those who live in conservation areas are more likely to be Tesla customers already.

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