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No One Saw Tesla’s Solar Roof Coming

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Re: No One Saw Tesla’s Solar Roof Coming

#221

Post by DiThi »

erikpukinskis wrote: post #210
jomamaxx wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From a popular perspective - you are maybe right - they 'sexified' something not quite so sexy. However - I suggest this won't work out like the iPhone. Why? Because --> 'new roofs' are not built that often, by that I mean new homes and roofing replacements. And the construction industry has totally different dynamics. Putting on a 'regular' new roof is expensive. Most people won't consider this tech unless their hom…

> 'new roofs' are not built that often Source? Roofs last 20-30 years. 125 million homes in the U.S., with roofs being replaced every 25 years means 5 million roofs per year. Triple that for Europe, China, and the rest and you've got 15 million a year. It's a big ticket item so you don't have to capture that much of the market to start hitting pretty serious revenue numbers.

> Triple that for Europe, China, and the rest

In Europe (or at least the parts I've been in) roofs last much more than that. At least twice as long. Esp in countries like mine (Spain) where climate is much less aggressive with rooftops. And we don't use tar shingles.

Re: No One Saw Tesla’s Solar Roof Coming

#222

Post by digler999 »

jernfrost wrote: post #199
tajen wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But is it carbon-neutral now? Let's remind the whole picture here: We want to come back to global greenhouse gases emissions on 1990, because they were balanced by nature's absorption. It often happens that the cost of building solar panels, transporting them to the location, disposing them before their estimated time-to-live and getting rid of all their chemicals emit more carbon than we save by using electricity fr…

As far as I know consumer electricity usage has been on a downward trend for a long time. Computers, TVs, washing machines etc are increasingly using less power. I think there are limits to how much we can waste. E.g. when food prices drops to half we don't buy twice as much food.

There was a good New Yorker article within the past 2 years that talks about the increase in consumption. One example it used was refrigerators. Back in the 60s, something happened where they got cheaper/more power efficient. Instead of a gradual reduction in power, it increased because people just put the old one in the basement to freeze more stuff. Same is true (I think) with traffic. If we were to make, say, traffic signals more efficient by synchronizing them, or somehow increase capacity on freeways, people would just drive more. Not saying all resources are like this, however.

Re: No One Saw Tesla’s Solar Roof Coming

#223

Post by repsilat »

perilunar wrote: post #178
pbh101 wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The government is not literally just 'us.' It's a contentious idea: "government is just the word for the things we choose to do together" was oft-repeated by Rep. Barney Frank. He was repeating it because not everyone agrees. I think the primary problem of government funding is waste and the potential for corruption. Waste because the government is more immune to profit motive and thus can throw good money after bad…

>"government is just the word for the things we choose to do together" Definitely contentious. A more correct formulation is "government is just the word for the things we are forced to do together"

Perhaps more even-handed libertarian dig is that it's "the things we force ourselves to do together." In that view it's a solution to market failures around externalities and bad game-theoretic outcomes in collective action/decision-making. Free-riders, the tragedy of the commons, that sort of thing.

Re: No One Saw Tesla’s Solar Roof Coming

#224

Post by digler999 »

tajen wrote: post #146
philipkglass wrote: post #22

I had serious misgivings when Tesla/SolarCity announced a switch of focus to building-integrated PV. Historically, BIPV is where a PV technology goes to die after it's failed to compete against incumbent module designs. But these have far better aesthetics than previous BIPV efforts. They look better individually and they aren't clumped in one odd shiny patch on the roof like past BIPV. Search for images of solar shi…

But is it carbon-neutral now? Let's remind the whole picture here: We want to come back to global greenhouse gases emissions on 1990, because they were balanced by nature's absorption. It often happens that the cost of building solar panels, transporting them to the location, disposing them before their estimated time-to-live and getting rid of all their chemicals emit more carbon than we save by using electricity fr…

> "I've saved 20% of carbon emissions compared to having a petrol-based SUV" tells another story than "I don't have an SUV".

or the inverse: "why should I feel guilty for my consumption since consuming resources is required to be alive?"

Re: No One Saw Tesla’s Solar Roof Coming

#225

Post by DiThi »

vic-traill wrote: post #143
espadrine wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are several things. Firstly, they look taped on. We clearly see that there are normal tiles underneath, giving the same impression that a piece of cloth would have if a hole in it had been fixed by stitching a completely different piece of cloth on it. Secondly, they are not properly aligned at the edge. It might be a bit OCD, but I wouldn't expect my wooden parquetry to stop before reaching the wall. Thirdly,…

Fair enough, thanks for replying. One and three I can see, I figure two could just be quality of installation - other types of shingles could be installed mis-aligned too. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, it's true. It might not jump out at me, but that is indeed just me.

> I figure two could just be quality of installation

I think it's more about using the places where the sun shines the most (look at the third before/after photo in that page). Tesla roofs on the other side will have non-solar shingles that look exactly the same.

Re: No One Saw Tesla’s Solar Roof Coming

#226

Post by dannypgh »

aianus wrote: post #158
jackmott wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

fossil fuel industry people are somehow able to forget that they get subsidies right now every time they comment about clean tech subsidies.

Can anyone explain to me these oft-mentioned government subsidies on fossil fuels? Gas has 25% taxes where I live. Surely that's the opposite of 'subsidizing' it (vs, for example, electricity which is taxed at 5%). What am I missing?

It's supply side. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_subsidies

Re: No One Saw Tesla’s Solar Roof Coming

#227

Post by [deleted] »

KKKKkkkk1 wrote: post #110
aerovistae wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another side note: it always annoys me when people insinuate that Musk using government funds is a bad thing. The government is literally just US....it's our money and a collection of individuals from among us who we've appointed to handle the general administration of us and the space we take up. Why should American entrepreneurs, particularly ones doing such an outstanding job of moving technology in a positive dir…

Please do not use the word we in this context. Half of my colleagues are paying very hefty federal and state taxes but do not have the right to vote.

[deleted]

Re: No One Saw Tesla’s Solar Roof Coming

#228

Post by tlrobinson »

digler999 wrote: post #222
jernfrost wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I know consumer electricity usage has been on a downward trend for a long time. Computers, TVs, washing machines etc are increasingly using less power. I think there are limits to how much we can waste. E.g. when food prices drops to half we don't buy twice as much food.

There was a good New Yorker article within the past 2 years that talks about the increase in consumption. One example it used was refrigerators. Back in the 60s, something happened where they got cheaper/more power efficient. Instead of a gradual reduction in power, it increased because people just put the old one in the basement to freeze more stuff. Same is true (I think) with traffic. If we were to make, say, traf…

> If we were to make, say, traffic signals more efficient by synchronizing them, or somehow increase capacity on freeways, people would just drive more.

Or say, invent self-driving cars...

Re: No One Saw Tesla’s Solar Roof Coming

#229

Post by Tempest1981 »

refurb wrote: post #128
aerovistae wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another side note: it always annoys me when people insinuate that Musk using government funds is a bad thing. The government is literally just US....it's our money and a collection of individuals from among us who we've appointed to handle the general administration of us and the space we take up. Why should American entrepreneurs, particularly ones doing such an outstanding job of moving technology in a positive dir…

A big part is how gov't money is doled out. It forces the gov't to pick winners and losers. And since politics always seems to permeate everything the gov't does, people start to question the decisions. Even if it's something as straightforward as "green credits", the process can always be perverted to advantage one business over another.

It's a tough balance. Often we (in the US) don't invest, then complain when jobs shift to other countries. We've seen so much bashing of $0.54 billion for Solyndra (a tiny gamble); but now most solar panels are made in China. Need to gamble, but wisely.

Re: No One Saw Tesla’s Solar Roof Coming

#230

Post by WalterBright »

jdcarr wrote: post #208
WalterBright wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a ceramic roof once. Walking on the roof would break the tiles. It made it hard to do maintenance on anything up there. My preference these days would be for a metal roof.

Corrugated iron is infamously loud in rain. What type of metal roof are you considering that wouldn't be such an earsore?

Corrugated is only one type. Lots of places around here (Seattle) have metal shingles, and I've never noticed noise when in them in the rain. Perhaps it has to do with how they are mounted and, of course, it rarely rains hard here. It mostly just drips.

Metal roofs are light, long lasting, do not support insects, and don't burn.

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