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No One Saw Tesla’s Solar Roof Coming

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Re: No One Saw Tesla’s Solar Roof Coming

#181

Post by lathiat »

anexprogrammer wrote: post #168
slfnflctd wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Roof replacement is quite a dirty business, in more than one sense of the term, and there are regions where whole roofs are replaced by the majority of insured homeowners every 10 years or less. Any dent that can be made in this problem is a good thing, and this looks to be quite a large dent indeed.

> roofs are replaced by the majority of insured homeowners every 10 years or less Well I was going to be astonished, but Google and Wikipedia seem to tell me US roofs are a consumable and usually asphalt! Most UK roofs are tile, slate if older, and asphalt shingles reserved for sheds, garden structures etc. Tile lifespan should be 60+ years. As much as I like the improved aesthetics I don't see the tiles making much…

that's bananas, in Australia replacing a roof is really uncommon. much like the poster above in the UK it's usually either corrugated "tin" (actual metal varies) or Terracotta/concrete tiles.

We don't really have any of the "shingle" type stuff. The "Tuscan" glass tile from the Tesla event is the closest looks to the most common tiles here.

Re: No One Saw Tesla’s Solar Roof Coming

#182

Post by forgetsusername »

jasonlingx wrote: post #154
aerovistae wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another side note: it always annoys me when people insinuate that Musk using government funds is a bad thing. The government is literally just US....it's our money and a collection of individuals from among us who we've appointed to handle the general administration of us and the space we take up. Why should American entrepreneurs, particularly ones doing such an outstanding job of moving technology in a positive dir…

In this case it's taxpayers subsidising high end roofing for nice houses owned by well off people.

Spot on. I'm all for subsidizing industries to incentivize the behaviour we want, but I'm not sure the people who can afford these homes, or $100,000 cars, need it.

Re: No One Saw Tesla’s Solar Roof Coming

#183

Post by gwbas1c »

You've got to be kidding!!! Just look at those ugly solar panels on roofs, and it becomes obvious that someone is going to make solar shingles.

I've been joking with my family that someone will come out with solar shingles in the next few years.

Obvious!

Re: No One Saw Tesla’s Solar Roof Coming

#184

Post by redcap »

philipkglass wrote: post #153
tajen wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But is it carbon-neutral now? Let's remind the whole picture here: We want to come back to global greenhouse gases emissions on 1990, because they were balanced by nature's absorption. It often happens that the cost of building solar panels, transporting them to the location, disposing them before their estimated time-to-live and getting rid of all their chemicals emit more carbon than we save by using electricity fr…

1) Anthropogenic CO2 emission rates in 1990 were greater than natural sinks could offset. 2) Under any reasonable set of assumptions, rooftop solar PV has significantly lower emissions per kWh than the cleanest fossil sources. In 2014 the IPCC estimated a median value of 41 gCO2-e/kWh for rooftop PV generation vs. 490 for combined cycle natural gas generation. 3) Perhaps some of the CO2 avoidance will be squandered e…

2) Does that include the carbon cost of manufacturing, distributing and installing the tiles?

Re: No One Saw Tesla’s Solar Roof Coming

#185

Post by josinalvo »

brownbat wrote: post #174
hinkley wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tar shingles are pretty damned heavy. If you've never experienced it, try picking some up at your hardware store, they have a bit of a weigh budget to work with. And then if you want some sympathy for your roofers, imagine slinging a box of those while standing on a diagonal surface 20 feet in the air in the afternoon sun. Yikes. I'd almost worry more about about the size of the panels making installation problematic…

Solar, surprisingly enough, has a higher death per kilowatt rate than nuclear, primarily because roofing work is so dangerous. Nowhere close to mining coal of course. http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesconca/2012/06/10/energys-de...

I've heard these numbers from Forbes come from a very pro-nuclear estimate.

Does anyone more knowledgeable care to comment? What other estimates are there? How are they calculated?

Re: No One Saw Tesla’s Solar Roof Coming

#186

Post by elihu »

mhurron wrote: post #17
lifeisstillgood wrote: post #6

That's brilliant. It fixes that huge objection we all have to solar on our houses - and it is not the product itself but that it is a innovative solution to a problem "everyone" has looked at and said "nah I don't want that rubbish on my roof" and nearly turned it on its head It's just one more example of why discounting Elon might be a bad idea. If only I had bought tesla a few years ago ...

> "nah I don't want that rubbish on my roof" Why not? What on earth are you doing up there that this is such a problem. My roof is an open, unused space over the house. I will be looking into putting solar panels up there in a few years.

I agree with you completely, but there are people who aren't okay with big black rectangles on their roof (or are married to someone who isn't okay with big black rectangles on their roof). People tend to be emotionally attached to and have strong opinions about the appearance of their house, which is perfectly understandable. Rather than expect everyone to hold the same opinion about the attractiveness of solar panels, Tesla has made a product for those who think solar panels are ugly. If that means some people will install solar who otherwise wouldn't, I think that's great.

The one downside I can see is that HOAs may require the new kind of solar roof, even for those homeowners who would have preferred the old black rectangles (which would presumably be cheaper). Rules about what an HOA can and can't demand will of course vary by jurisdiction.

Re: No One Saw Tesla’s Solar Roof Coming

#187

Post by philipkglass »

redcap wrote: post #184
philipkglass wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) Anthropogenic CO2 emission rates in 1990 were greater than natural sinks could offset. 2) Under any reasonable set of assumptions, rooftop solar PV has significantly lower emissions per kWh than the cleanest fossil sources. In 2014 the IPCC estimated a median value of 41 gCO2-e/kWh for rooftop PV generation vs. 490 for combined cycle natural gas generation. 3) Perhaps some of the CO2 avoidance will be squandered e…

2) Does that include the carbon cost of manufacturing, distributing and installing the tiles?

Yes. Hit up Google Scholar with "life cycle", "co2", and "photovoltaic" as terms if you want to understand in more detail.

This report looks pretty good if you want just one document: https://www.nachhaltigwirtschaften.at/resources/iea_pdf/repo...

It's from the International Energy Agency and it is recent (which is important, because commercial PV technology is evolving rapidly).

Re: No One Saw Tesla’s Solar Roof Coming

#188

Post by spectrum1234 »

tajen wrote: post #146
philipkglass wrote: post #22

I had serious misgivings when Tesla/SolarCity announced a switch of focus to building-integrated PV. Historically, BIPV is where a PV technology goes to die after it's failed to compete against incumbent module designs. But these have far better aesthetics than previous BIPV efforts. They look better individually and they aren't clumped in one odd shiny patch on the roof like past BIPV. Search for images of solar shi…

But is it carbon-neutral now? Let's remind the whole picture here: We want to come back to global greenhouse gases emissions on 1990, because they were balanced by nature's absorption. It often happens that the cost of building solar panels, transporting them to the location, disposing them before their estimated time-to-live and getting rid of all their chemicals emit more carbon than we save by using electricity fr…

You are missing the point. Super long term sustainable energy is very hard. 100% of focus needs to be on just getting the mass market this much closer.

Carbon neutral isn't even in the ballpark of highest priorities given ALONE how difficult this first step is. Carbon neutral will be the obvious next goal in ~1 decade when EV cars, home batteries, and solar panels are more commonplace.

Going for carbon neutral now is equivalent to over investing in solar panels 2-3 decades ago.

Re: No One Saw Tesla’s Solar Roof Coming

#189

Post by spectrum1234 »

GregBuchholz wrote: post #27

I'm curious if anyone has stats on what percentage of houses have an unobstructed southern roof (for those in the Northern hemisphere)? My house has seasonally adjusted nanotechnology self-replicating shade "panels" that block considerable sunlight in the spring and summer months (MTBF: 100+ years). The big downside is cleaning up the unused panels in the autumn.

West would work as well. In many cases its better.
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