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Sonder E-Ink Keyboard

sonderdesign.com

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Re: Sonder E-Ink Keyboard

#211

Post by sushid »

mclightning wrote: post #184
SonderDesign wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great feedback Animats, the cloud is something mostly editors had requested where they move from studio to studio, it's an option to simply download the their specific work flow to that terminal; it's optional; it's just a stored profile a user can elect to download to the keyboards flash. It's not like an IoT product logging keys; instead we have an API on the client which communicates with stored mappings on flash.…

Is there any chance you could bring price down to $99 to $120 range? Get it manufactured in China, Do some business investment magic, economy of scale things. I dont know :D It is really cool keyboard, but price is above of what most people are willing to pay for a keyboard. By the way, another use-case is using it with games with complex controls like Elite Dangerous, Star Citizen, Kerbal Space Program.

Your comment seems too hand-wavy for the parent commenter to take seriously.

First, they're partnered with Foxconn so it's very likely they're made in China.

Second, you can't just "do economies of scale" without a slightly pricier v1 of the product; hey're not going to be selling hundreds of thousands of them.

Third, many are more than willing to to pay over that amount for keyboard.

Just take a look at custom mechanical keyboards (Ergodox, Poker 3, k95 if you're looking at more mainstream ones) if you want a glimpse at the high-end keyboard market. I'm guessing that the "patented crisp, responsive key mechanism" are not mechanical switches, but people do (as do I) pay well over that for keyboards they're interested in.

Re: Sonder E-Ink Keyboard

#212

Post by [deleted] »

mclightning wrote: post #184
SonderDesign wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great feedback Animats, the cloud is something mostly editors had requested where they move from studio to studio, it's an option to simply download the their specific work flow to that terminal; it's optional; it's just a stored profile a user can elect to download to the keyboards flash. It's not like an IoT product logging keys; instead we have an API on the client which communicates with stored mappings on flash.…

Is there any chance you could bring price down to $99 to $120 range? Get it manufactured in China, Do some business investment magic, economy of scale things. I dont know :D It is really cool keyboard, but price is above of what most people are willing to pay for a keyboard. By the way, another use-case is using it with games with complex controls like Elite Dangerous, Star Citizen, Kerbal Space Program.

[deleted]

Re: Sonder E-Ink Keyboard

#213

Post by tarikjn »

SonderDesign wrote: post #185
tarikjn wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please consider split keyboards with raisers for future advanced models, I have a Kinesis Freestyle 2 with VIP3 kit, and this is the best keyboard I've ever used as far as ergonomics -- and it doesn't have to have such a large footprint or long travel keys to be ergonomic, though the riser and the wrist rests are almost indispensable. The Goldtouch Go!2 tried to go in the direction of an ergonomic mobile keyboard, bu…

I agree with your points on ergo design, we did a survey with the thousands on community members and only like 4% would buy an ergo design which was lower than expected. It's important for us to address from a design perspective but we want to do incremental keyboard revision, otherwise consumers won't be able to adapt to the massive transition in a dynamic and ergo design.

Yes, I think it makes 100% sense that you guys focus on a mobile keyboard for the step 1. And I think you guys made a very good start at it by using Apple design as a reference, using a reversible connection, and adding backlighting. From an ergonomics standpoint, Apple's keyboard is actually fairly good for a straight keyboard.

When you do get to step 2 tough, I think that 4% will prove to be underrated, because (a) RSI cases will only grow as the generations who grew up typing on computer keyboards gradually become a larger share, and (2) those making a living typing on a computer keyboard, insurance companies and employers who want to reduce costs are likely ready to spend hundreds for a healthy keyboard (I know I am).

Re: Sonder E-Ink Keyboard

#214

Post by pc2g4d »

This general idea is brilliant. Think what it does for discoverability of application functionality. I'm sure Chrome (where I'm typing this) has a multitude of useful shortcuts that I'm not aware of but that my keyboard could be teaching me. Suppose I push Control and every key changes to show what would happen were I to combine it with the Control modifier. Same for games---could save me a few hundred peeks at the Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup help menu.

As I've said in another comment recently, there seems to be a lot of innovation around keyboards right now---Apple's Touch Bar, RGB keyboards, this e-ink thing. I'm excited for the possibility of new standards emerging and new ways of interacting with existing applications being developed.

Re: Sonder E-Ink Keyboard

#218

Post by sn0v »

gambiting wrote: post #161
Animats wrote: post #120

"With Sonder all your settings are saved automatically to the cloud." Just what we need. Computer peripherals slaved to some external cloud server. You have a computer right there, able to store stuff. Run programs, even. You don't want to be tied to some here-today, gone-tomorrow service. Also, how do you know it isn't sending your keystrokes somewhere? An API would make more sense. Programs which change the meaning…

You already can't use your Razor mouse(not to the fullest, anyway) without signing in with your Razor account. And recently, Nvidia started requiring that you create an Nvidia account to use their GeForce Experience application. Super annoying.

Yeah, I went ahead and installed the driver manually (sans GeForce Experience). I can always update manually when needed (if/when a new game is wonky).

Screw having to create unnecessary accounts (or signing into services I don't absolutely need).

Re: Sonder E-Ink Keyboard

#219

Post by brokenmachine »

the_duke wrote: post #121
brokenmachine wrote: post #117

Is it really that hard to remember keys for different applications that you need expensive displays on every key? Learning to touchtype has been the most efficient use of my time ever. As a mechanical keyboard user, chiclet non-mechanical keys just feel like garbage to me now. Like my laptop which I hate using only because of the keyboard. Absolutely no tactile feel at all. Just mushy little islands that my fingers c…

Sure it's easy, for the two or three applications you use each and every day, and for the shortcuts you use all the time. Want to use a shortcut you only need every once in a while, which is non the less buried in 3 levels of confusing menus? Want to use shortcuts in a program you only use from time to time? Want to learn how to efficiently use a new program, without popping over to the (potentially long and confusin…

I don't see how they'll have a obvious icon for something very complicated that I can't remember the hotkey for, that also fits in an icon 5mm x 5mm.

For example, I'm looking for the shortcut in Photoshop for "Send layer to bottom of stack". How will this keyboard be able to tell me that the shortcut for this is "Ctrl+Shift+["?? It's much easier to google or look through the "confusing menus" than to hunt for some bound-to-be cryptic icon on a tiny keyboard.

Basically you have to spend the effort to learn if you actually want to use a program, or indeed, a computer, efficiently.

I'm not a luddite, I'm all for useful efficiency improvements, but sacrificing actual keyboard tactile feel for useless displays on every key is not a tradeoff that I would make.

I agree with the languages thing though. Could be useful for that, but not nearly useful enough for me to offset the horrible mushy chiclet keys and in my opinion substandard layout.

Re: Sonder E-Ink Keyboard

#220

Post by y80 »

SonderDesign wrote: post #181
y80 wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It says on the site that all your configurations are saved automatically to the cloud. How exactly do you go about achieving this? Is there any way to disable this functionality?

Best analogy is like dropbox, I have files stored on my terminal, but if I want I can back it up online and download new files to my machine. It's just an option that creative design professionals constantly request so it had to be included in the scope.

So it requires us to install an extra piece of software on the device that isn't just a driver to be able to use the keyboard? Sounds cumbersome, especially since you make it sound like it's not optional. Can it be disabled?
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