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Sonder E-Ink Keyboard

sonderdesign.com

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Re: Sonder E-Ink Keyboard

#141

Post by anexprogrammer »

rayiner wrote: post #134
anexprogrammer wrote: post #15

An interesting idea, but I just don't look at my keyboards. Even so, I can't help feeling this is a much better approach than replacing F-keys with the Mac Touchbar. The touchbar could have been a great idea if above the pre-existing keys. However, if it was a Model M chassis, sculpted full travel loud mechanical keys, E-Ink, and a modern selection of media keys and volume I'd probably buy one. Regardless of how sill…

> sculpted full travel loud mechanical keys I learned to type on a Model M keyboard. But are they actually better ? Or is it all psycho-somatic? I don't think I type any slower on a modern scissor-switch keyboard. And frankly it's a lot less physical exertion and not to mention quieter.

I've had a lot of keyboards over my 35 years of computing. I stuck with Thinkpads for years because they had scissor keys that compared with a desktop, had decent travel and a distinct click. Desktop's included Microsoft Natural, standard OEM, through midrange to Roccat with cherry browns, and a Razer with blues.

None of them have lasted, or had the build quality, or felt as nice. More than a few have been actively irritating. The silly price Roccat was the least reliable of the lot.

I keep coming back to my M. If it's placebo it's a convincing one.

Re: Sonder E-Ink Keyboard

#142

Post by SonderDesign »

camoby wrote: post #131
SonderDesign wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi, appreciate the feedback; I'm one of the engineers working on the project at Sonder. Our CEO actually has a Model M and an Apple Extended Keyboard II as reference designs in the office; they're probably the pinnacle of good keyboard design and construction however the product you're asking for (a mech switch display keyboard) already exists and it costs $1500. The reality is, that approach is not optimised for mas…

Didn't you just just acquired by Apple?

Our comms lead, Orli did issue a statement but we can't comment further on the Apple rumours.

https://sonderdesign.com/press-release-20161017/

Re: Sonder E-Ink Keyboard

#143

Post by SonderDesign »

anexprogrammer wrote: post #139
SonderDesign wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi, appreciate the feedback; I'm one of the engineers working on the project at Sonder. Our CEO actually has a Model M and an Apple Extended Keyboard II as reference designs in the office; they're probably the pinnacle of good keyboard design and construction however the product you're asking for (a mech switch display keyboard) already exists and it costs $1500. The reality is, that approach is not optimised for mas…

When I say I'd pay a silly price, I wasn't thinking quite Art Lebedev silly! They discontinued the nicer one (Maximus). Didn't realise the display was a single piece. Must make the switching and springing challenging to say the least. In fact I struggle to work out how you do it reliably with the tiny space between keys. One to watch I hope. I look forward to interesting new products! Perhaps not a million miles from…

We basically redesigned the mechanism from the ground up; I can't comment on it specifically since it's all IP sensitive but a different approach whilst preserving the same tactile feel.

Re: Sonder E-Ink Keyboard

#144

Post by anexprogrammer »

mmanfrin wrote: post #63
anexprogrammer wrote: post #15

An interesting idea, but I just don't look at my keyboards. Even so, I can't help feeling this is a much better approach than replacing F-keys with the Mac Touchbar. The touchbar could have been a great idea if above the pre-existing keys. However, if it was a Model M chassis, sculpted full travel loud mechanical keys, E-Ink, and a modern selection of media keys and volume I'd probably buy one. Regardless of how sill…

The 'cloud connected' stuff is an obnoxious gimmick, but Das's upcoming 5q is pretty close to what you're looking for: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1229573443/das-keyboard...

Interesting idea. I can think of a couple of uses I'd put that to.

If it wasn't cloud config I'd back it enough to get one.

Re: Sonder E-Ink Keyboard

#145

Post by anexprogrammer »

gcb0 wrote: post #69
anexprogrammer wrote: post #15

An interesting idea, but I just don't look at my keyboards. Even so, I can't help feeling this is a much better approach than replacing F-keys with the Mac Touchbar. The touchbar could have been a great idea if above the pre-existing keys. However, if it was a Model M chassis, sculpted full travel loud mechanical keys, E-Ink, and a modern selection of media keys and volume I'd probably buy one. Regardless of how sill…

You are not the target audience. i will pass on this one because they keys are probably garbage, but I change my layout between several languages and i actually have some of the layouts printed out because i am still not very familiar with them. Not my use case either, but visit any audio or video editing room. I will bet you money that every workstation will have colorful stickers on top of all the keyboards to remi…

Oh I see that. Even then I see cases I'd find it useful - software I don't use daily, learning something like vi, games etc. Enough that I'd buy a mechanical if they ever made one.

I see it as a vastly better add for a Macbook Pro than the touch sensitive bar.

Re: Sonder E-Ink Keyboard

#146

Post by webmaven »

SonderDesign wrote: post #108
Drdrdrq wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has it? I haven't heard about any important improvements for quite some time... What has changed? (genuinly curious)

Increased DPI, colour, refresh rates and partial updating, front lighting solutions, cost(!), mass production optimisation, decreased power consumption. Just a few.

You missed the biggest improvement: Increased contrast.

The 1st gen Kindle's display was a light grey resembling cheap newspaper stock. Definitely readable in decent lighting, and you could increase the font size to improve legibility if it was an issue, but not what I would call "pretty". Kind of dingy, really, and illustrations & photos all looked blah.

Current eInk Kindles' displays are much brighter looking in ambient light. Not yet as bright as the paper in a hardcover book, but about as good as a several-year-old paperback. And it is definitely bright enough to make looking at illustrations & photos worthwhile.

On top of that, the front-lighting on a very low or lowest setting will increase the contrast just enough to create the illusion of whiter paper (and if that isn't enough for you, by all means crank it up).

Re: Sonder E-Ink Keyboard

#148

Post by cooper12 »

contingencies wrote: post #113

I submitted this a month ago but nobody upvoted it. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12625702

Probably just the luck of the draw, but Apple's recent TouchBar news and rumors of an e-ink keyboard (http://www.theverge.com/2016/10/19/13328710/apple-e-ink-keyb...) likely increased the interest in such a device.

Re: Sonder E-Ink Keyboard

#149

Post by rdtsc »

rayiner wrote: post #134
anexprogrammer wrote: post #15

An interesting idea, but I just don't look at my keyboards. Even so, I can't help feeling this is a much better approach than replacing F-keys with the Mac Touchbar. The touchbar could have been a great idea if above the pre-existing keys. However, if it was a Model M chassis, sculpted full travel loud mechanical keys, E-Ink, and a modern selection of media keys and volume I'd probably buy one. Regardless of how sill…

> sculpted full travel loud mechanical keys I learned to type on a Model M keyboard. But are they actually better ? Or is it all psycho-somatic? I don't think I type any slower on a modern scissor-switch keyboard. And frankly it's a lot less physical exertion and not to mention quieter.

> But are they actually better?

I think I get less fatigue. For example on my laptop, I feel like I keep hitting my fingers on hard surface and it gets tiring and they hurt a lot sooner than when I type on my Model M.

On laptops, Thinkpads have the best so far I've seen (tried Acer, HP, Macbook Pro).

With physical excretion, it is an interesting point. I just bolt modded my Model M (that means replacing some of the aging plastic rivets inside with metal bolts, which requires a complete disassembly and drilling holes and so on). And so for a while was using a generic keyboard with Cherry MX blue switches. Also clicky but a lot less resistance.

When I switched back to my fixed up Model M I noticed my fingers were weaker and it was hard to type. After a bit of time on it was back on track. I think fingers get stronger or get used to it perhaps.

But I totally don't discount this being a placebo effect. I know I am irrational about being attached to this keyboard. I just spent a large number of hours fiddling with it, ordering custom parts, and so on. If you ask me I'll probably tell you my program compile faster too when I type them on it ;-)

Re: Sonder E-Ink Keyboard

#150

Post by grogenaut »

Animats wrote: post #120

"With Sonder all your settings are saved automatically to the cloud." Just what we need. Computer peripherals slaved to some external cloud server. You have a computer right there, able to store stuff. Run programs, even. You don't want to be tied to some here-today, gone-tomorrow service. Also, how do you know it isn't sending your keystrokes somewhere? An API would make more sense. Programs which change the meaning…

I think braided fiber means that the usb cable has one of those nice cloth cable covers that come on nice headphones, instead of just a plain plastic casing.
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