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Microsoft is now a braver, more innovative company than Apple

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Re: Microsoft is now a braver, more innovative company than Apple

#51
post #26

Microsoft is innovative because you can now purchase a dedicated hardware peripheral for some software feature the touchscreen was designed to replace. Let's completely forget that Microsoft 'upgrades' your OS without your permission, spies on you, embeds ads into the Start Menu, and their OEMs like Lenovo will listen in on everything you do at the hardware level. In my opinion, these are actual reasons a company sho…

HN has gone to shit, and one of the reasons is that huge numbers of .NET developers somehow funneled in and started directing the content, so absolutely terrible submissions like this one float to the top. As does every future-claim of Microsoft's, every bit of oversold shovelware, etc. It's rather incredible.

And yes, I realize this will be dead, and I am completely okay with that. I achieve my purpose posting in hidden silence.

Re: Microsoft is now a braver, more innovative company than Apple

#52
Apple's ace is osx or macos as it's now called. Without this they would be struggling in the professional computing market. They are already starting to drop the ball on the hardware front. Luckily for them it will take far longer to destroy osx.

Re: Microsoft is now a braver, more innovative company than Apple

#53
Microsoft has almost always been a more innovative company.

Microsoft Research alone is enough for this to be true.

Surface is a very very very old brand/moniker that goes back almost a decade at this point - originally a tech demo of a table that you could interact with in various ways. They explored touch, VR and all sorts of alternative interfaces before anyone else. They took a stab at PDAs around the same time as Palm (which was also an insanely innovative company). Their developer tooling is really innovative, the CLR itself, their IDE integration.

Hell the NT kernel was/is a really innovative piece of technology - it's driver model still completely stomps what is available in Linux/Mach.

Apple was never more innovative than Microsoft, they just executed way better. Jobs might not have been a technical or even design genius (though plenty of both worked for him), but he definitely was a business genius that really understood the value of crisp execution and marketing.

I say all of this as an Apple user, that also happens to be a fan of the technical and innovative achievements of Microsoft and as someone that contributes to and relies on the OSS/Linux/GNU stack. I have a horse in every race but at the end of the day you can't dispute that Microsoft is the clear innovation powerhouse remaining with IBM/HP/Bell Labs mostly winding down in comparison.

Re: Microsoft is now a braver, more innovative company than Apple

#54
post #26

Microsoft is innovative because you can now purchase a dedicated hardware peripheral for some software feature the touchscreen was designed to replace. Let's completely forget that Microsoft 'upgrades' your OS without your permission, spies on you, embeds ads into the Start Menu, and their OEMs like Lenovo will listen in on everything you do at the hardware level. In my opinion, these are actual reasons a company sho…

> that seemingly never wanes in performance while provide enduring support that make them last so much longer than their competitors

Dunno, I bought a top-of-the-line rMBP in late 2013, and the anti-glare coating has come off from the screen -- Apple didn't honor the warranty (this is Europe). I sold it because it was crap to use, then some months later Apple confirmed that it is a widespread problem and they will replace the screens for free. (Except in e.g. Hungary where the official dealers didn't give a crap, because the 1 year warranty was over.) Also it had problems with overheating and wifi.

On the other hand, I had a bulky, unsexy HP Zbook G2 that had a GPU problem after 2 years. HP guy came to my house with a new GPU, disassembled the laptop on my desk, put the new GPU in, run some diags and left. In 24 hrs. I sold this one and it is in service at one of my friends, rendering in 3DSMAX 12 hours a day.

Anecdata, I know.

Re: Microsoft is now a braver, more innovative company than Apple

#55
post #53

Microsoft has almost always been a more innovative company. Microsoft Research alone is enough for this to be true. Surface is a very very very old brand/moniker that goes back almost a decade at this point - originally a tech demo of a table that you could interact with in various ways. They explored touch, VR and all sorts of alternative interfaces before anyone else. They took a stab at PDAs around the same time a…

> Microsoft Research alone is enough for this to be true.

MS Research is a brilliant department but it is (was) completely disconnected from the main business.

And yes, NT driver model is super robust.

Re: Microsoft is now a braver, more innovative company than Apple

#56

I wonder how much propaganda do we read every day ? Tip: A lot. I think that almost every piece of information which is not pure art or mathematical formulas - is some sort of propaganda.. Meaning someone somewhere is pushing his own agenda, directly or indirectly. It is strategically wise for Apple competitors to put out all kinds of negative articles right now. Apple does something unpopular - use that as a lever t…

I agree with you that we are constantly bombarded with propaganda, but a lot of the backlash is coming from long-time Apple users such as myself, who feel that Apple is no longer making computers for us. And you know what? That's perfectly fine, they're a business and are catering to the high end where the margins are best.

The proof is littered all over HN and Reddit where blog posts all begin with the same defense, "I"ve been using Macs since... and have bought Apple since this, this and this."

Personally, I wish there were a company selling a generic looking, uni-body notebook, similar in aesthetic and price to the new Xiaomi laptop. If some company could optimize hardware like that specifically for Linux, from the ground up, then maybe I could ditch this aging mid-2011 Macbook Air running Linux.

Re: Microsoft is now a braver, more innovative company than Apple

#57
post #26

Microsoft is innovative because you can now purchase a dedicated hardware peripheral for some software feature the touchscreen was designed to replace. Let's completely forget that Microsoft 'upgrades' your OS without your permission, spies on you, embeds ads into the Start Menu, and their OEMs like Lenovo will listen in on everything you do at the hardware level. In my opinion, these are actual reasons a company sho…

> spies on you

Any reason to believe MS does this more than Apple does?

> their OEMs like Lenovo will listen in on everything you do at the hardware level.

MS making their own hardware looks to be at least partially a response to that.

> - build quality machines that seemingly never wanes in performance while provide enduring support that make them last so much longer than their competitors that it shifts the arithmetic when comparing the YoY cost of their wares to their competition

Again, this really isn't the advantage it used to be. MS first-party surface hardware is really high quality.

> But let's all calm down. Apple is still a cut above. USB-C connected peripherals will likely storm into the marketplace. You'll probably get the new MBP. If you really can't handle the dongles, get the 2nd to latest version. It'll last you more than 4 years easily. If you're the type to get a new model every year: either you work very closely with the MBP hardware itself or you need to re-examine your life.

Apple has long offered an excellent direct user experience but extremely poor interoperability. You're still not allowed to run their OS in a VM or on third-party hardware, nor develop programs for Apple systems on non-Apple systems - and if you want a different configuration than the very limited choice Apple gives you, tough. There's plenty wrong with MS but I feel like they're at least somewhat open to alternatives if I don't like their way of doing it. Apple is very much "our way or the highway", which is not where I want my software to be.

Re: Microsoft is now a braver, more innovative company than Apple

#58
post #9

This is a bizarre comparison. The Surface Studio is not in competition with the MacBook Pro. It's closest analogue is something like the iPad Pro with a stand I guess. Apple will not be making a direct competitor to the Surface Studio because they aren't going to make a touch screen MacOS (the right decision IMO). I mean the Studio looks nice if you're an illustrator but there's no obligation to compete with every ni…

As a happy Surface Book user, I don't see how the Surface Studio is niche? I don't use the touchscreen that often, but it's great to have it - why would you ever not want touch to work? And there are some things that are a lot better on a touchscreen. In 5 or 10 years every desktop computer will look like the Surface Studio. At the moment it's a premium product (but so is everything Apple makes).

Re: Microsoft is now a braver, more innovative company than Apple

#59

Well, okay, I admit. That they finally decided to build own hardware IS brave (it's very expensive) and I think they will have success if they find consumers who need it. The Surface line still lacks streamlined designs, the products feel disconnected from each other. The only thing that connects them is Windows 10 and that's also their weakness at the same time. So much Microsoft wants me to love it, I just don't. N…

I think Microsoft needs built it's own hardware. Windows isn't exactly a delight to use, but it's only made worse by the crappy hardware most people are running it on.

Currently my work laptop is an HP ProBook, and just as much to blame for my poor Windows experience as Windows it self is.

Re: Microsoft is now a braver, more innovative company than Apple

#60
When has it not been? Apple for the most part, doesn't innovate. They take ideas and polish them to a mirror shine. MS actually does: they have a really strong research department, and did a lot of things that were unheard of when they did them.

Face it, Thinking Different has always been MS's ball. Them and the Unixes.

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