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The Mac Platform Decline

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Re: The Mac Platform Decline

#151

Post by grzm »

jasonjei wrote: post #138
grzm wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Off the top of my head, I remember Apple under Sculley/Amelio* as - proliferation and fragmentation of Apple hardware - licensing of the OS to other hardware makers Under Cook, - Apple processors - improvements in manufacturing (materials, component integration, energy efficiency) These seem to be much longer-term projects than what was happening under Sculley. What are you thinking of in particular in terms of "imme…

Apple processors and improvements in industrial engineering happened before Cook took the helm. You could argue those were under Jobs's watch... And yes the increase of revenue in services is safe, stable bet. But offering music and email and image storage doesn't seem to be be groundbreaking services to me.

Agreed that there's overlap with the hardware improvements under Jobs and Cook.

Also agreed that Apple's services aren't groundbreaking. I mentioned them only in response to "Lots of revenue are being made from iCloud subscriptions to Apple Music." I generally don't think much of iCloud other than being frustrated with contact syncing, and don't use Apple's email and image storage at all. I find Apple Music annoying and iTunes software horribly frustrating.

Re: The Mac Platform Decline

#152

Post by grzm »

aduitsis wrote: post #148
jasonjei wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read that there is an independent ARM processor controlling TouchBar. Is there solid proof the TouchBar reverts to Func keys when no OS has initialized/rendered keys to the TouchBar?

Federighi has already confirmed it. http://www.macrumors.com/2016/10/28/using-touch-bar-with-boo...

I was looking at that article as well. I read that as confirming how the Touch Bar will work under Windows in Boot Camp. GP is asking a different question: how will the Touch Bar work for non-Windows OSes, in particular during the boot or OS initialization process itself?

Re: The Mac Platform Decline

#153

Post by smsm42 »

jeffehobbs wrote: post #73

This recent round of updates made me consider what I need from a "work" machine. For me, it comes down to three items: * Can I code on this machine? This means at minimum three tasks: write, deploy and test code. This also connotes a lot of things, including but not limited to access to a non-unobfucated file system. * Can I view all file formats easily and successfully? This includes formats like XML and json which…

As a software developer, the thought of using ipad or any iOS device as a work machine sounds utterly laughable to me. In fact, I don't even use it for play/reading device, because it's too restricted, for work - it's not even in the same galaxy (no pun intended :). I admit, I may not be a typical user - but come to any software conference and you'll see a lot of people like me.

What worries me more is that it seems like the Apple laptop line - which has captured a lot of developer segment by having the right combination of polish, power and flexibility - now seems to begin the move away from the power user and towards the same segment iOS devices are serving. They start to remove features and restrict power and flexibility to add more polish. And that's where our ways will be parting.

My last two work machines were Macbooks, but it looks like the next one won't be.

Re: The Mac Platform Decline

#154

Post by Lio »

thaw13579 wrote: post #32
ascendantlogic wrote: post #16

"It will be a switch from iOS developers using Macs at home to them using PCs at home and having a "work Mac" for commercial development." This is exactly what gave rise to the Mac and OSX in the last 10-15 years. People worked on Windows PCs "at work" but had Macs for personal development. Now I'm witnessing the exact same scenario play out now that Apple is the market behemoth amongst power users and developers. Do…

The Linux subsystem on Windows seems promising too, and it may fill the same gap as the Mac OS X BSD backend when Apple transitioned from OS 9 to OS X. I'm curious to see what MS does with it, and I wonder if it could possibly win back a lot of Mac developers.

The two things Microsoft needs for me to switch back after 10 years with a Mac are:-

1. Really good Linux sub-system support.

2. A clear story with regard disabling all telematics and phone-home monitoring in Windows 10.

If Microsoft could get its privacy stance sorted out in an upfront way I'd seriously consider them.

Personally though I'm not happy with current reassurances about privacy protection in Windows 10.

Re: The Mac Platform Decline

#155

Post by snom380 »

__david__ wrote: post #146
snom380 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's one thing that would actually make sense. Maybe they're more open to the idea now that they're publicly supporting and advertising third party displays. (edit:spelling)

What? When have they not supported 3rd party displays?

They've always supported third party displays, but this is the first time that I recall that they've included third party displays in an Apple event / presentation. To me, it's a pretty sure sign that an external 5K display from Apple isn't immediately forthcoming (else they would have announced it now and not mentioned the LG display).

Re: The Mac Platform Decline

#156

Post by smsm42 »

matt4077 wrote: post #105
jeffehobbs wrote: post #73

This recent round of updates made me consider what I need from a "work" machine. For me, it comes down to three items: * Can I code on this machine? This means at minimum three tasks: write, deploy and test code. This also connotes a lot of things, including but not limited to access to a non-unobfucated file system. * Can I view all file formats easily and successfully? This includes formats like XML and json which…

Nothing has changed here. You're just defining "work" differently than Apple. You're looking at programmers, they're looking at the whole. Programmers always needed access at a lower level. Others rarely did. 95%+ of the world's digital output can or at least could be done on an iPad with a keyboard. If anything the number is rising. I no longer need access to an (installed) office suite. A web browser will do. So in…

Nobody says lawyers or journalists or road workers or electricians or barbers or Macdonalds cashiers don't work. However, Apple products in the past were well-tuned to work needs of many software developers, IT workers and other such professionals, for which there's a lot of evidence if you visit any suitable conference, for example. But, it looks like recently Apple has been de-emphasizing the importance of this use case, which would mean the above mentioned professionals may want to look for a platform better suited to their needs.

Re: The Mac Platform Decline

#157

Post by danjoc »

zepto wrote: post #63
jasonjei wrote: post #52

I see a lot of parallels of Tim Cook's Apple to John Sculley's Apple. Tim Cook's, like John Sculley's, is focused on immediate short-term bottom line improvements rather than long-term investments. John Sculley kept staying the course, and Tim Cook is doing much of the same. If anything, the most recent iteration of MBP is sidelining serious developers and content producers. So yes, Apple's bottom line is growing. Lo…

I keep seeing people say things about how the Mac is sidelining serious developers and content producers, but I haven't seen any actual argument as to why this is so. Can you explain?

I'll sum up the points I've seen for the 2016 Macbook Pro.

1) No esc key or fkeys. These are pretty important for vim, and vim is the defacto editor on most Linux systems. If you want these keys, you have to accept the lower end dual core CPU and no discrete GPU.

2) 16GB of RAM, not really enough for running multiple VMs. 32GB has been common for years from other manufacturers. Phil Schiller responded that this was to conserve battery life.

3) Skylake. This CPU is old. Kaby Lake has been shipping since late August. It's a bit of a stretch to call a laptop "premium" or "pro" when it ships with the last generation hardware.

4) GPU. Same gripe. NVidia is the undisputed leader in GPUs. Shipping a Radeon which is half the speed of a comparable NVidia offering is really disappointing.

5) Magsafe. They removed Magsafe in favor of USB-C charging. Great for Apple repair and replacement sales, not so great for end users.

6) Price. Everyone expects to pay some premium for an Apple, but this round is really excessive. They've made it worse by axing the lower priced Macbook Air line, so the least expensive model available now is a $1299 Macbook, and that's an even older 5th generation Broadwell CPU model they've been selling for nearly two years now.

Re: The Mac Platform Decline

#158

Post by matwood »

x0x0 wrote: post #136
threeseed wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intel is responsible for the lack of RAM not Apple.

You can buy a dell xps 15 today that comes with: 3840 x 2160 display / 1tb pcie solid state disk / nvidia gtx 960m (crucial for developing cuda programs and prototyping deep learning on your laptop) / 32g ram. For $2340 (ten percent off coupon at the top of the page). I'm not sure if this link will work: http://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/productdetails/xps-15-9550-la... And this thing comes with regular usb ports and an…

Totally in agreement. I'll give Linux another try on my rMBP to see if the HiDPI issues have been resolved yet. A quick search shows that MySQL Workbench still has issues:

https://bugs.mysql.com/bug.php?id=48867

If that's the only software I use that has problems I can probably deal with that though.

Re: The Mac Platform Decline

#159

Post by jasonjei »

IBM wrote: post #88
jasonjei wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft, I'm sure, also threw a lot of R&D money at things. I just think the money under Jobs's Apple was directed more wisely.

As an outsider you can only tell if the R&D money was spent wisely in retrospect.

I would say the same of insiders. Outsiders can judge this better than insiders due to independence (tunnel vision and company pride sometimes get in the way).

Re: The Mac Platform Decline

#160

Post by mbernstein »

matwood wrote: post #158
x0x0 wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can buy a dell xps 15 today that comes with: 3840 x 2160 display / 1tb pcie solid state disk / nvidia gtx 960m (crucial for developing cuda programs and prototyping deep learning on your laptop) / 32g ram. For $2340 (ten percent off coupon at the top of the page). I'm not sure if this link will work: http://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/productdetails/xps-15-9550-la... And this thing comes with regular usb ports and an…

Totally in agreement. I'll give Linux another try on my rMBP to see if the HiDPI issues have been resolved yet. A quick search shows that MySQL Workbench still has issues: https://bugs.mysql.com/bug.php?id=48867 If that's the only software I use that has problems I can probably deal with that though.

The annoying part with Linux on rMBP's for me isn't the display - it's the fact that my palm rests on the trackpad and causes all kinds of issues that macOS is immune to.
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