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DMCA exemption for repairs, modifications, research on your vehicle takes effect

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Re: DMCA exemption for repairs, modifications, research on your vehicle takes effect

#91

Post by darpa_escapee »

syshum wrote: post #70
darpa_escapee wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Safe Habor, as written, ensures YouTube's dominance in online self uploaded video. If I remember correctly, YouTube originally gained popularity because practically anything could be uploaded on the service. A huge percentage of it was blatantly copyrighted material.

You remember what the Major Media companies want you to remember. It is revisionist history at best. Yes there was copyrighted content on YouTube, as there is today, but no that is not why is gained popularity. It gained popularity because it made video accessible to everyone. Before youtube attempting to host your own videos, be it a cat video, or a major movie was EXPENSIVE. Back then, as today, most of the "violat…

> You remember what the Major Media companies want you to remember.

No, I remember watching full movies, episodes and seasons of shows on YouTube. I remember music videos, full albums and re-uploads of content from other websites.

I remember reading from multiple sources that in the early days, YouTube willfully ignored DCMA takedowns and allowed infringing content to be shared for the views.

>It gained popularity because it made video accessible to everyone. Before youtube attempting to host your own videos, be it a cat video, or a major movie was EXPENSIVE.

There were a handful of free video hosts around at the time.

Re: DMCA exemption for repairs, modifications, research on your vehicle takes effect

#92

Post by cmurf »

kybernetyk wrote: post #32
cmurf wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the aftermath from inventing intellectual property. Patents were once called monopolies. What I find amusing is, you get this staunchly anti-government/libertarians who are also incredibly pro-IP. And yet IP is all based on governments granting monopoly power over ideas, with violations enabling the owner to engage in all kinds of punative behavior with the government as the strong arm. Ironic. I think there's s…

>you get this staunchly anti-government/libertarians who are also incredibly pro-IP. Actually most libertarian are strictly against any form of IP and patents. They prefer trade secrets over state regulation. But then again I don't know if you mean real libertarians or just crypto-statists calling themselves libertarian because they don't know better...

I permit others some rope when it comes to labeling themselves. I mean self-labeled libertarians, and it's pretty much all of them that believe completely in IP being literal property to be treated every bit as much, if not more than, real property. Even a couple anarcho-capitalist friend strongly believe in it. They'll all say they don't like the government's involvement, they'll say the Ip owner's insurance company should sure my insurance company if I violate a patent. So it ends up being the same thing in the end.

And I'm aware a sizeable chunk of anarcho-capitalists think IP as a concept is bullcrap.

Re: DMCA exemption for repairs, modifications, research on your vehicle takes effect

#93

Post by cmurf »

alasdair_ wrote: post #59
cmurf wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the aftermath from inventing intellectual property. Patents were once called monopolies. What I find amusing is, you get this staunchly anti-government/libertarians who are also incredibly pro-IP. And yet IP is all based on governments granting monopoly power over ideas, with violations enabling the owner to engage in all kinds of punative behavior with the government as the strong arm. Ironic. I think there's s…

To be fair, most forms of property come from government-granted rights. The very idea that you can own land is kind of weird when you think about it.

Right. Or mineral extraction rights, and so on.

Re: DMCA exemption for repairs, modifications, research on your vehicle takes effect

#94

Post by taneq »

kalleboo wrote: post #49
taneq wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are different levels of 'computerised', though. An early 90s car with EFI and ABS does have some processors in it, but they're standard modules (so can just plug a new one in if one fails) running from EPROM and have very limited communication. Unless you're worried about it being EMP-proof, that's not really a problem. Modern cars where everything is controlled by a central internet-connected computer are a wh…

> Modern cars where everything is controlled by a central internet-connected computer are a whole different proposition. Are cars really built this way? I thought they were still basically a network of devices, for safety reasons.

I believe it's moving more in that direction - reading the teardown of the Toyota code in the unintended acceleration case, that one system seemed to be running a whole bunch of unrelated stuff as well as reading the accelerator pedal. Also witness the numerous reports recently of people being able to affect various critical subsystems (ABS, central locking) wirelessly on modern cars.

(I'd be amazed/horrified if ABS wasn't an independent module which talks to the rest of the car, but if you can give it instructions over the wire then it's still vulnerable.)

Re: DMCA exemption for repairs, modifications, research on your vehicle takes effect

#95

Post by jamez1 »

syshum wrote: post #70
darpa_escapee wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Safe Habor, as written, ensures YouTube's dominance in online self uploaded video. If I remember correctly, YouTube originally gained popularity because practically anything could be uploaded on the service. A huge percentage of it was blatantly copyrighted material.

You remember what the Major Media companies want you to remember. It is revisionist history at best. Yes there was copyrighted content on YouTube, as there is today, but no that is not why is gained popularity. It gained popularity because it made video accessible to everyone. Before youtube attempting to host your own videos, be it a cat video, or a major movie was EXPENSIVE. Back then, as today, most of the "violat…

YouTube gained popularity because of the copyrighted content not because of the random crap like a dancing baby.

Popularity, is about views, not submissions.

It's weird that you've started this paranoid rant about history being re-written, when you're the one who is totally off mark. (and seem to have eluded common sense)

Re: DMCA exemption for repairs, modifications, research on your vehicle takes effect

#96

Post by kwiens »

xg15 wrote: post #67

I haven't kept track, but last time I read about it, DMCA lobbyists managed to get a pretty absurd restriction into the exemption: Cars may only be repaired by their owners , so handing your car over to a repairman or to researchers would still be illegal. This means in practice the excemption would only change things for people who are both highly skilled in the relevant technology and are interested in fixing their…

Yes, the third party maintenance restriction is still in place. Which really neuters the exemption. You also can't develop a tool and sell it to others. (Use it yourself all you want, just don't share it.)

Clearly, that's ridiculous and needs to change. Repair.org could definitely use help to fix this once and for all.

Re: DMCA exemption for repairs, modifications, research on your vehicle takes effect

#97

Post by otakucode »

dev_throw wrote: post #2

This is great news. It is alarming to realize that a majority of devices built after 2020 will be connected to the internet without the choice for us to vet their security. Securing these devices must be a proactive endeavor.

It's OK though, the US has a good track record of prosecuting executives of companies for criminal negligence when they do things like ignore their engineers, give nontechnical people authority over deciding when a product ships, staff themselves with the least experienced and cheapest engineers they can find in positions whose job description doesn't even include the word 'security' and things like that.

Oh, we're talking about systems that involve computers? Damn, guess we're on our own.

Re: DMCA exemption for repairs, modifications, research on your vehicle takes effect

#98

Post by otakucode »

alasdair_ wrote: post #59
cmurf wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the aftermath from inventing intellectual property. Patents were once called monopolies. What I find amusing is, you get this staunchly anti-government/libertarians who are also incredibly pro-IP. And yet IP is all based on governments granting monopoly power over ideas, with violations enabling the owner to engage in all kinds of punative behavior with the government as the strong arm. Ironic. I think there's s…

To be fair, most forms of property come from government-granted rights. The very idea that you can own land is kind of weird when you think about it.

Of course. The only 'natural right' to property is the right to physical control over the things you are presently holding in your hands. As soon as you set them down, you lose every natural right over them and some social system has to step in.

Re: DMCA exemption for repairs, modifications, research on your vehicle takes effect

#99

Post by otakucode »

qwertyuiop924 wrote: post #65
s_q_b wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm trying to conceive of a t-shirt that would, merely by reading it, cause the reader to violate a copyright law. That one's difficult. Maybe one with a custom EULA, "By talking to me you acknowledge that you are agreeing to these terms. Should you not agree, say nothing further."

With facial recognition, we could make a t-shirt that makes you violats the DMCA: every time a face is detected looking at the shirt, it breaks some sort of "digital lock." I'm thinking we have it decode an ISO of a DVD, but it could be almost anything.

It could be literally anything. The lawsuit by RealNetworks against Streambox over the Streambox VCR software established as legal precedent that one single bit, undocumented, is adequate to qualify as a "copyright control mechanism" and that if you ignore that bit, whose purpose you need not even be capable of knowing, you have circumvented it and broken federal law. (There is some sweet irony in the fact that the DMCA, which the Realnetworks v Streambox suit first established the legitimacy of in the courts (due solely to Streambox running out of money - they won every case until they could not afford to respond to an appeal, handing Realnetworks a default judgement) was later used against Realnetworks when they enabled their users to backup DVD movies.)

Re: DMCA exemption for repairs, modifications, research on your vehicle takes effect

#100

Post by qwertyuiop924 »

otakucode wrote: post #99
qwertyuiop924 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With facial recognition, we could make a t-shirt that makes you violats the DMCA: every time a face is detected looking at the shirt, it breaks some sort of "digital lock." I'm thinking we have it decode an ISO of a DVD, but it could be almost anything.

It could be literally anything. The lawsuit by RealNetworks against Streambox over the Streambox VCR software established as legal precedent that one single bit, undocumented, is adequate to qualify as a "copyright control mechanism" and that if you ignore that bit, whose purpose you need not even be capable of knowing, you have circumvented it and broken federal law. (There is some sweet irony in the fact that the D…

really? jeez. That's even worse. And probably enough to put about half of HN into prison.
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