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DMCA exemption for repairs, modifications, research on your vehicle takes effect

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Re: DMCA exemption for repairs, modifications, research on your vehicle takes effect

#51

Post by rtpg »

qwertyuiop924 wrote: post #15

How did the DMCA ever get passed? It's an absolutely insane, ludicrous set of laws. I'm going to start selling shirts that say "Today I Broke The DMCA". No matter who wears it, it's probably true.

So my understanding is that the DMCA introduced safe harbor, which lets platforms like Youtube exist.

You can now run a social network and not get sued into oblivion for users putting up copywrighted content, so long as you're not too complicit in the behaviour. Safe harbor is a win for the internet in my book.

Without safe harbor, Google would be liable for re-distributing movies that people keep on uploading to the site. Takedown requests get a bad rap, but it's not the worst possible scenario IMO.

Re: DMCA exemption for repairs, modifications, research on your vehicle takes effect

#52

Post by izacus »

rtpg wrote: post #51
qwertyuiop924 wrote: post #15

How did the DMCA ever get passed? It's an absolutely insane, ludicrous set of laws. I'm going to start selling shirts that say "Today I Broke The DMCA". No matter who wears it, it's probably true.

So my understanding is that the DMCA introduced safe harbor, which lets platforms like Youtube exist. You can now run a social network and not get sued into oblivion for users putting up copywrighted content, so long as you're not too complicit in the behaviour. Safe harbor is a win for the internet in my book. Without safe harbor, Google would be liable for re-distributing movies that people keep on uploading to the…

I don't understand - Google would be liable ONLY because there's another law saying they would be liable. Why not change that law instead of enact another set of crazy laws which demands that you keep proving you've done nothing wrong when some corporation sends a form?

Re: DMCA exemption for repairs, modifications, research on your vehicle takes effect

#53

Post by ddeck »

mrkgnao wrote: post #48
hueving wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the HN user that reported them did the right thing IMO. Ethical research is a thing. The user reported them to hi-po not because they were 'hacking', but because they intentionally created a dangerous situation on a highway by stalling a car, which could have gotten multiple people killed. It's similar to the guy that decided to connect to the turbofan with his laptop on a populated passenger airplane in flight .

> It's similar to the guy that decided to connect to the turbofan with his laptop on a populated passenger airplane in flight. Link?

Wired published a relatively lengthy article on the incident(s):

https://www.wired.com/2015/05/feds-say-banned-researcher-com...

Re: DMCA exemption for repairs, modifications, research on your vehicle takes effect

#54

Post by rtpg »

izacus wrote: post #52
rtpg wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So my understanding is that the DMCA introduced safe harbor, which lets platforms like Youtube exist. You can now run a social network and not get sued into oblivion for users putting up copywrighted content, so long as you're not too complicit in the behaviour. Safe harbor is a win for the internet in my book. Without safe harbor, Google would be liable for re-distributing movies that people keep on uploading to the…

I don't understand - Google would be liable ONLY because there's another law saying they would be liable. Why not change that law instead of enact another set of crazy laws which demands that you keep proving you've done nothing wrong when some corporation sends a form?

If you have the most basic copyright law, then Google is liable, because they are distributing content they don't have permission to.

So tech companies want Safe Harbor. Media companies understand that safe harbor will enable some shadier businesses like megaupload (where the site owners are complicit in the content and hide behind safe harbor). So they say " OK for safe harbor, but we want a bit more protection for us, the content producers, as well." Thus a compromise is formed.

Most laws are comprises to get most people at the table, this seems like one of them.

Re: DMCA exemption for repairs, modifications, research on your vehicle takes effect

#55

Post by rms_returns »

nercht12 wrote: post #45
rms_returns wrote: post #39

The power of DMCA is only because of Google. The day we find an alternative to this great search engine of our times, DMCA will render itself toothless.

I fail to see how you think Google is responsible for the DMCA power. Google fought against acts like SOPA because it would have seriously hurt their business. The real people pushing DMCA power are Sony, RIAA, Warner Bros, and the entertainment industry who have the most to lose when it comes to this issue.

Then why do they remove the results from their so-called organic search based on DMCA requests?

I can also understand if the results are removed just from the USA based (google.com) site, but they are also removed from google.co.uk, google.co.in, etc. Since US Govt. has no jurisdiction over these other countries, I think its improper to apply DMCA blacklisting over there.

Re: DMCA exemption for repairs, modifications, research on your vehicle takes effect

#56

Post by syshum »

0xcde4c3db wrote: post #36
kybernetyk wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>you get this staunchly anti-government/libertarians who are also incredibly pro-IP. Actually most libertarian are strictly against any form of IP and patents. They prefer trade secrets over state regulation. But then again I don't know if you mean real libertarians or just crypto-statists calling themselves libertarian because they don't know better...

Granting that the Venn diagram of "libertarian" and "Objectivist" is a contentious matter, Ayn Rand was very outspoken in her support of copyrights and patents, and one of the plots of the villainous collectivists in Atlas Shrugged was to nationalize all patents.

Ayn Rand was also very outspoken about not being called a Libertarian, she create Objectivism to be separate and apart from Libertarianism, one of the differences between Objectivism and Libertarianism is copyright/patents

Re: DMCA exemption for repairs, modifications, research on your vehicle takes effect

#57

Post by syshum »

rtpg wrote: post #54
izacus wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand - Google would be liable ONLY because there's another law saying they would be liable. Why not change that law instead of enact another set of crazy laws which demands that you keep proving you've done nothing wrong when some corporation sends a form?

If you have the most basic copyright law, then Google is liable, because they are distributing content they don't have permission to. So tech companies want Safe Harbor. Media companies understand that safe harbor will enable some shadier businesses like megaupload (where the site owners are complicit in the content and hide behind safe harbor). So they say " OK for safe harbor, but we want a bit more protection for…

Compromise: Taking the worst parts of 2 ideas and make an even worse singular idea.....

Re: DMCA exemption for repairs, modifications, research on your vehicle takes effect

#58

Post by syshum »

rtpg wrote: post #51
qwertyuiop924 wrote: post #15

How did the DMCA ever get passed? It's an absolutely insane, ludicrous set of laws. I'm going to start selling shirts that say "Today I Broke The DMCA". No matter who wears it, it's probably true.

So my understanding is that the DMCA introduced safe harbor, which lets platforms like Youtube exist. You can now run a social network and not get sued into oblivion for users putting up copywrighted content, so long as you're not too complicit in the behaviour. Safe harbor is a win for the internet in my book. Without safe harbor, Google would be liable for re-distributing movies that people keep on uploading to the…

On paper this is true...

In reality this is only a win if you have the deep pockets of google and are able to implement all the things that Safe Harbor Requires, respond to all of the Automated and primary bogus requests in a timely fashion, and are willing to have to your platform censored to the extreme. YouTube can withstand it because of its inertia, many new platforms have tried and failed.

Safe Habor, as written, ensures YouTube's dominance in online self uploaded video.

Further Safe Habor does not protect you from being sued, it simply gives you a defense should you be sued. See the YouTube vs Viacom case.

AS such one will still have to pay lawyers to defend them, this results in many content platforms being shutdown, or never being created in the first place

No in reality Safe Habor only seems like a good thing on paper, and then only if you are a Copyright Maximalist that believe the current copyright law is acceptable or does not provide enough protection.

Re: DMCA exemption for repairs, modifications, research on your vehicle takes effect

#59

Post by alasdair_ »

cmurf wrote: post #22
qwertyuiop924 wrote: post #15

How did the DMCA ever get passed? It's an absolutely insane, ludicrous set of laws. I'm going to start selling shirts that say "Today I Broke The DMCA". No matter who wears it, it's probably true.

It's the aftermath from inventing intellectual property. Patents were once called monopolies. What I find amusing is, you get this staunchly anti-government/libertarians who are also incredibly pro-IP. And yet IP is all based on governments granting monopoly power over ideas, with violations enabling the owner to engage in all kinds of punative behavior with the government as the strong arm. Ironic. I think there's s…

To be fair, most forms of property come from government-granted rights. The very idea that you can own land is kind of weird when you think about it.

Re: DMCA exemption for repairs, modifications, research on your vehicle takes effect

#60

Post by darpa_escapee »

syshum wrote: post #58
rtpg wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So my understanding is that the DMCA introduced safe harbor, which lets platforms like Youtube exist. You can now run a social network and not get sued into oblivion for users putting up copywrighted content, so long as you're not too complicit in the behaviour. Safe harbor is a win for the internet in my book. Without safe harbor, Google would be liable for re-distributing movies that people keep on uploading to the…

On paper this is true... In reality this is only a win if you have the deep pockets of google and are able to implement all the things that Safe Harbor Requires, respond to all of the Automated and primary bogus requests in a timely fashion, and are willing to have to your platform censored to the extreme. YouTube can withstand it because of its inertia, many new platforms have tried and failed. Safe Habor, as writte…

> Safe Habor, as written, ensures YouTube's dominance in online self uploaded video.

If I remember correctly, YouTube originally gained popularity because practically anything could be uploaded on the service. A huge percentage of it was blatantly copyrighted material.

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