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DMCA exemption for repairs, modifications, research on your vehicle takes effect

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Re: DMCA exemption for repairs, modifications, research on your vehicle takes effect

#31

Post by s_q_b »

userbinator wrote: post #30
s_q_b wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm going to start selling shirts that say "Today I Broke The DMCA". That actually happened with DeCSS. Many many years ago, in an internet far far away, some clever hackers determined how to decrypt DRM-protected DVDs. They even built a decryption program and named it DeCSS. Several court cases followed, usually based upon WIPO CC, the treaty that the DMCA implements. In DVD CCA v. Bunner , a California court issu…

A clear example of the Streisand effect in action. More recently, this happened with the decryption key that starts with 09 F9...

I'm trying to conceive of a t-shirt that would, merely by reading it, cause the reader to violate a copyright law. That one's difficult.

Maybe one with a custom EULA, "By talking to me you acknowledge that you are agreeing to these terms. Should you not agree, say nothing further."

Re: DMCA exemption for repairs, modifications, research on your vehicle takes effect

#32

Post by kybernetyk »

cmurf wrote: post #22
qwertyuiop924 wrote: post #15

How did the DMCA ever get passed? It's an absolutely insane, ludicrous set of laws. I'm going to start selling shirts that say "Today I Broke The DMCA". No matter who wears it, it's probably true.

It's the aftermath from inventing intellectual property. Patents were once called monopolies. What I find amusing is, you get this staunchly anti-government/libertarians who are also incredibly pro-IP. And yet IP is all based on governments granting monopoly power over ideas, with violations enabling the owner to engage in all kinds of punative behavior with the government as the strong arm. Ironic. I think there's s…

>you get this staunchly anti-government/libertarians who are also incredibly pro-IP.

Actually most libertarian are strictly against any form of IP and patents. They prefer trade secrets over state regulation.

But then again I don't know if you mean real libertarians or just crypto-statists calling themselves libertarian because they don't know better...

Re: DMCA exemption for repairs, modifications, research on your vehicle takes effect

#34

Post by macintux »

hueving wrote: post #27
foxfired wrote: post #21

One thing that I thought was funny about the hackers remotely hacking the Jeep, is that after the article was published and posted here, an HN user went on and reported them to them to High Way patrol. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9921987

And the HN user that reported them did the right thing IMO. Ethical research is a thing. The user reported them to hi-po not because they were 'hacking', but because they intentionally created a dangerous situation on a highway by stalling a car, which could have gotten multiple people killed. It's similar to the guy that decided to connect to the turbofan with his laptop on a populated passenger airplane in flight .

I argued at the time that no matter what actions they took on the highway, they were placing other cars at risk.

There are so many interactions in a vehicle that the researchers have no way of knowing with absolute certainty what will happen whenever they twiddle a bit.

Yes, 99 times out of 100, things may go as expected. The 100th time one of the O2 sensors happens to be misbehaving and suddenly your car is accelerating unexpectedly because software.

(Warning: the above example is probably complete bullshit but listen to John Hughes talk about property testing the CAN bus and you'll get nervous about ever driving again.)

Re: DMCA exemption for repairs, modifications, research on your vehicle takes effect

#36

Post by 0xcde4c3db »

kybernetyk wrote: post #32
cmurf wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the aftermath from inventing intellectual property. Patents were once called monopolies. What I find amusing is, you get this staunchly anti-government/libertarians who are also incredibly pro-IP. And yet IP is all based on governments granting monopoly power over ideas, with violations enabling the owner to engage in all kinds of punative behavior with the government as the strong arm. Ironic. I think there's s…

>you get this staunchly anti-government/libertarians who are also incredibly pro-IP. Actually most libertarian are strictly against any form of IP and patents. They prefer trade secrets over state regulation. But then again I don't know if you mean real libertarians or just crypto-statists calling themselves libertarian because they don't know better...

Granting that the Venn diagram of "libertarian" and "Objectivist" is a contentious matter, Ayn Rand was very outspoken in her support of copyrights and patents, and one of the plots of the villainous collectivists in Atlas Shrugged was to nationalize all patents.

Re: DMCA exemption for repairs, modifications, research on your vehicle takes effect

#37

Post by fnj »

tiglionabbit wrote: post #28
cmurf wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the aftermath from inventing intellectual property. Patents were once called monopolies. What I find amusing is, you get this staunchly anti-government/libertarians who are also incredibly pro-IP. And yet IP is all based on governments granting monopoly power over ideas, with violations enabling the owner to engage in all kinds of punative behavior with the government as the strong arm. Ironic. I think there's s…

I thought patents were an incentive to invest in research and development. Without patents, anyone who invests in research is at a disadvantage because when they come up with something good, their competitors can copy them at no cost.

No, both they and their competitors are equally advantaged once the invention has been made. What paents give them is not freedom from disadvantage; it is an artificial advantage to justify making the investment.

Society/the government is ostensibly afraid nobody will invent if they are not artificially advantaged. Those with working intellect consider that trade secrets are enough of a protection against competition.

Re: DMCA exemption for repairs, modifications, research on your vehicle takes effect

#40

Post by Hyperborian »

0xcde4c3db wrote: post #36
kybernetyk wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>you get this staunchly anti-government/libertarians who are also incredibly pro-IP. Actually most libertarian are strictly against any form of IP and patents. They prefer trade secrets over state regulation. But then again I don't know if you mean real libertarians or just crypto-statists calling themselves libertarian because they don't know better...

Granting that the Venn diagram of "libertarian" and "Objectivist" is a contentious matter, Ayn Rand was very outspoken in her support of copyrights and patents, and one of the plots of the villainous collectivists in Atlas Shrugged was to nationalize all patents.

That Venn diagram has little to no actual overlap at all.

The objectivists just find it to be to their advantage, these days, to make it appear that they might. The controversy that you suggest is as manufactured as the controversy about anthropomorphic climate change.

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