Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think it you are not from the U.S. You realize racists in the U.S. consider black people _the exact same_ way you consider Roma? You believe the distinction is that the racists in the U.S. are incorrect in their beliefs, but you are correct in your beliefs? Okay...
What belief ? For the non-Roma citizens, literally every interaction they have with a Roma is either a) adolescents trying to scam (or pickpocket) you in the street or b) women begging in the street. This has nothing to do with blacks at all.
General questions about the Airbnb Community Commitment
181–190 of 196 posts
Re: General questions about the Airbnb Community Commitment
#182Earlier quoted context omitted.
Can I not be okay with someone's culture without being racist? I don't hate or discriminate against Indians, but I despise how they view and treat women in their culture. http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-37735370
And what about the people who have distanced themselves from that culture (if they even experienced it at all) but are still that race? You can differentiate based on the actions and ideas because those are under the person's control for the most part, and not by protected categories because those are not. Despise the people who treat women that way, which might happen to be statistically applicable to a race, but no…
Re: General questions about the Airbnb Community Commitment
#183Earlier quoted context omitted.
What's wrong with that? You don't have to use their service. They are not in a situation that they have to provide service to everyone. I don't see a problem when a company says "if you're a racist you're not allowed to use our service".
Accusations like "racist" mainly flow towards pre-approved victim categories and are commonly used as a blunt weapon in oppression olympics. In those cases, there is no acceptable defense against it, because the reply will be along the lines of "omg, this racist is trying to excuse their racism". Guilty until proven super-guilty. That's why this gets people's bristles up, because it reeks of the "reverse racism isn't…
Re: General questions about the Airbnb Community Commitment
#184People discriminate every day. I discriminate against restaurants and babysitters and businesses all the time. Sometimes those discriminations are because of a feeling. Sometimes they are are based on my internal biases. Sometimes I disagree with the choices a business has made and if affects whether or not I do business with them. Why do we make such a big deal about "discrimination?" It's built into who we are as p…
You are obviously not being discriminating against where it matters. Here are a few examples that wouldn't be a big deal to you accordingly: 1) School says they won't accept your daughter, but hey it's not a big deal according to you 2) Neighborhood won't let you buy a house you like because they don't like your wife's skin color, but hey it's not a big deal 3) You are getting paid less at work and skipped for promot…
Nonetheless, I don't think this is important for your main point. We have been working around our suboptimal innate tendencies for millennia.
Re: General questions about the Airbnb Community Commitment
#185Earlier quoted context omitted.
When a single business dominates an entire industry in such a way, it's not just a "private business" anymore - it's an institution and should be treated as such.
I must admit that it's amusing to see libertarians complaining about the decisions made by a private business and implying that the government should step in.
Re: General questions about the Airbnb Community Commitment
#186Earlier quoted context omitted.
>What does "do the ramadan" entail for you? Basically you feast all day and eat big at night and in the morning. And best case they look at you funny and take a moralistic tone about your haram behavior and worst case, well there is a lot of different worst case scenario when it comes to those folks. I don't want them to leave me a bad review because they are bitter about my "haram" behavior >Does AirBnB have recours…
> Basically you feast all day and eat big at night and in the morning. I guess you meant that you fast during the day and feast at night.
Re: General questions about the Airbnb Community Commitment
#187It is inevitable that some renters will bring racist or xenophobic or other prejudices to the table when they decide who to rent their homes to. But there will be a whole range of positive and negative preferences about the type of person one wants to stay in one's home, many of which many not be motivated by racism or xenophobia, but by personal judgments about who one is prepared to open one's home to.
Airbnb is trying to micro-manage how people exercise their judgment about who is a good fit for their home. They are trying to force people to trust everyone equally or to feel equally well-disposed toward all potential renters, as a condition for using their service. They may have the LEGAL right to do this, but it will be impossible in many cases to enforce with any reliability.
Besides the notorious difficulty of enforcing this sort of discrimination edict without high levels of inteference and second-guessing of complex judgments, in my view, the new policy is likely to undermine, not promote, greater trust and respect betweeen renters and landlords, by fostering a more adversarial culture in Airbnb homes, where any refusal to rent is met with an air of suspicion and resentment and exclusion, as though opening your home to someone (even for money) was not a delicate matter.
Cultural change and reform comes through education and experience. Airbnb permits people to be exposed to different cultures and values by opening up their home to strangers (and receiving payment in return).
But I see no reason why Airbnd should appoint itself a sort of "moral policeman" to ensure that all renters are equally open to different cultures and communities. That kind of openness can be encouraged but it is quite absurd to think that it can be truly fostered in a positive way by getting people to tick a "community commitment" box before renting out their homes.
In fact, I would argue that this new "community commitment" could be considered ethically dubious at best, since it will provide a strong reason to people who rely on Airbnb but wish to exercise their own judgment about who stays in their home to lie on the website. Furthermore, the effort to get people to formally "commit" to what is essentially an ethical attitude in a quasi-contractual way, as a condition for using this type of renting "middle man" is an extraordinary act of over-reach, it seems to me, insofar as it essentially means that Airbnb feel they can appoint themselves the arbiter and judge of people's private motives and prejudices, whether through some formal declaration on their part, or through a statistical analysis of their behaviour.
Which raises the question, if Airbnb is worried about unjust discrimination in society at large, why does it think that setting itself up as a sort of "thought police" for its customers is a wise move? How can they not anticipat the inevitable resistance and backlash that will unleash, and its almost certain failure in practice to reform people's behaviour and attitudes (tick the box and move on)? And what does this sort of policy tell us about the type of authority that a middle man THINKS he has over his clients and their values, preferences, and lifestyles choices?
Is there some sort of "saviour" complex going on here, where a company thinks they must engage in an aggressive campaign to control their users' mindsets and micromanage their own decisions about who to rent their homes to? Or is the new Airbnb policy, as some have suggested, just a response to some legal or social pressures to "look good and inclusive"?
Whatever the answer to these questions, it strikes me that setting aside the legality of this new policy, the level of micromanagement and control it extends into clients' USE of the service and indeed into their values and attitudes regarding hosting people in their home, suggests a lack of trust in people's goodness and an unwillingness to take risks on people's goodness, to give them reasonable discretion to exercise their own judgments in the sphere of their own home (even if it is being rented out for profit).
Indeed, this sort of campaign, which comes close to being a sort of indirect "mind control," seems to bespeak an impatience with the messiness of human life and human relationships, and of course impatience with idiosyncratic and unstructured nature of the motives of people who rent out their own homes. Sometimes, in order to foster or preserve an atmosphere of trust and respect in general, you have to allow within a system for the possibility that some people will exercise bad or unfair judgments, or treat some people without the full respect they deserve. Making a rule to compel everyone to be respectful is not always the best way to foster a culture of respect.
Turning a modest facilitating service into a crusade for full inclusion and a change in cultural mindsets completely changes the nature of the Airbnb service, bringing it into the zone of a sort of "mind police" whose edicts will frequently be impossible to enforce.
It is an excellent example of the trend in our society to attempt to control from on high, with relatively crude regulations, the delicate flow of human relationships and attitudes between different groups, ethnicities, value identifications, religions, etc.
To be clear, I am not advocating racisms or invidious discrimination, but I am suggesting that (a) some degree of discrimination and profiling is a fact of life especially in the business of renting out one's own home, and it is not necessarily invidious, especially in situations of sparse information; and (b) to the extent that people do engage in invidious forms of discrimination when they rent out their homes, Airbnb is certainly not the appropriate entity to be rooting this out systematically - education and cultural reform must be carried out by winning over people's hearts and minds, and this work is already being done by the mere fact of cultural exchange permitted by the Airbnb network. Why spoil that work by implementing a policy that is likely to foster distrust, suspicion, and resentment among renters and proprietors?
Re: General questions about the Airbnb Community Commitment
#188It is inevitable that some renters will bring racist or xenophobic or other prejudices to the table when they decide who to rent their homes to. But there will be a whole range of positive and negative preferences about the type of person one wants to stay in one's home, many of which many not be motivated by racism or xenophobia, but by personal judgments about who one is prepared to open one's home to.
Airbnb is trying to micro-manage how people exercise their judgment about who is a good fit for their home. They are trying to force people to trust everyone equally or to feel equally well-disposed toward all potential renters, as a condition for using their service. They may have the LEGAL right to do this, but it will be impossible in many cases to enforce with any reliability.
Besides the notorious difficulty of enforcing this sort of discrimination edict without high levels of inteference and second-guessing of complex judgments, in my view, the new policy is likely to undermine, not promote, greater trust and respect betweeen renters and landlords, by fostering a more adversarial culture in Airbnb homes, where any refusal to rent is met with an air of suspicion and resentment and exclusion, as though opening your home to someone (even for money) was not a delicate matter.
Cultural change and reform comes through education and experience. Airbnb permits people to be exposed to different cultures and values by opening up their home to strangers (and receiving payment in return).
But I see no reason why Airbnd should appoint itself a sort of "moral policeman" to ensure that all renters are equally open to different cultures and communities. That kind of openness can be encouraged but it is quite absurd to think that it can be truly fostered in a positive way by getting people to tick a "community commitment" box before renting out their homes.
In fact, I would argue that this new "community commitment" could be considered ethically dubious at best, since it will provide a strong reason to people who rely on Airbnb but wish to exercise their own judgment about who stays in their home to lie on the website. Furthermore, the effort to get people to formally "commit" to what is essentially an ethical attitude in a quasi-contractual way, as a condition for using this type of renting "middle man" is an extraordinary act of over-reach, it seems to me, insofar as it essentially means that Airbnb feel they can appoint themselves the arbiter and judge of people's private motives and prejudices, whether through some formal declaration on their part, or through a statistical analysis of their behaviour.
Which raises the question, if Airbnb is worried about unjust discrimination in society at large, why does it think that setting itself up as a sort of "thought police" for its customers is a wise move? How can they not anticipat the inevitable resistance and backlash that will unleash, and its almost certain failure in practice to reform people's behaviour and attitudes (tick the box and move on)? And what does this sort of policy tell us about the type of authority that a middle man THINKS he has over his clients and their values, preferences, and lifestyles choices?
Is there some sort of "saviour" complex going on here, where a company thinks they must engage in an aggressive campaign to control their users' mindsets and micromanage their own decisions about who to rent their homes to? Or is the new Airbnb policy, as some have suggested, just a response to some legal or social pressures to "look good and inclusive"?
Whatever the answer to these questions, it strikes me that setting aside the legality of this new policy, the level of micromanagement and control it extends into clients' USE of the service and indeed into their values and attitudes regarding hosting people in their home, suggests a lack of trust in people's goodness and an unwillingness to take risks on people's goodness, to give them reasonable discretion to exercise their own judgments in the sphere of their own home (even if it is being rented out for profit).
Indeed, this sort of campaign, which comes close to being a sort of indirect "mind control," seems to bespeak an impatience with the messiness of human life and human relationships, and of course impatience with idiosyncratic and unstructured nature of the motives of people who rent out their own homes. Sometimes, in order to foster or preserve an atmosphere of trust and respect in general, you have to allow within a system for the possibility that some people will exercise bad or unfair judgments, or treat some people without the full respect they deserve. Making a rule to compel everyone to be respectful is not always the best way to foster a culture of respect.
Turning a modest facilitating service into a crusade for full inclusion and a change in cultural mindsets completely changes the nature of the Airbnb service, bringing it into the zone of a sort of "mind police" whose edicts will frequently be impossible to enforce.
It is an excellent example of the trend in our society to attempt to control from on high, with relatively crude regulations, the delicate flow of human relationships and attitudes between different groups, ethnicities, value identifications, religions, etc.
To be clear, I am not advocating racisms or invidious discrimination, but I am suggesting that (a) some degree of discrimination and profiling is a fact of life especially in the business of renting out one's own home, and it is not necessarily invidious, especially in situations of sparse information; and (b) to the extent that people do engage in invidious forms of discrimination when they rent out their homes, Airbnb is certainly not the appropriate entity to be rooting this out systematically - education and cultural reform must be carried out by winning over people's hearts and minds, and this work is already being done by the mere fact of cultural exchange permitted by the Airbnb network. Why spoil that work by implementing a policy that is likely to foster distrust, suspicion, and resentment among renters and proprietors?
Re: General questions about the Airbnb Community Commitment
#189Earlier quoted context omitted.
You are obviously not being discriminating against where it matters. Here are a few examples that wouldn't be a big deal to you accordingly: 1) School says they won't accept your daughter, but hey it's not a big deal according to you 2) Neighborhood won't let you buy a house you like because they don't like your wife's skin color, but hey it's not a big deal 3) You are getting paid less at work and skipped for promot…
I'm pretty sure the scientific consensus is still out on how much of discrimination stems from innate tendencies. If you have any reputable sources that say otherwise, it would be interesting to see them. My hunch is that the dynamics are far too complex amorphous for us to definitively pin down the causes any time soon. Nonetheless, I don't think this is important for your main point. We have been working around our…
It is acquired. My theory is that all discrimination stems from sexual fear, but I cannot prove this so I'll leave the argument for another day.
I went to kindergarten in a super mixed school: whites, asians, blacks in a country where 99% of the population is black. My attitude towards whites (asians were considered white as well) was always different from my friends who never dealt with whites let alone have white friends.
I went to Christian schools from kindergarten all the way to high school in a country where 95% of the population is Muslim. My point of view towards Christians was different to some extent.
I dated Whites, Middle Easterns, Blacks, lived with Chinese, Middle Eastern and a White person at some point in my life. My attitude towards people of different color is different from some of my friends who never spent much time with similar folks.
What creates discrimination is just the world view we create for ourselves based on our surrounding.
Re: General questions about the Airbnb Community Commitment
#190Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm pretty sure the scientific consensus is still out on how much of discrimination stems from innate tendencies. If you have any reputable sources that say otherwise, it would be interesting to see them. My hunch is that the dynamics are far too complex amorphous for us to definitively pin down the causes any time soon. Nonetheless, I don't think this is important for your main point. We have been working around our…
Hmmm no my friend. If it were innate than you would have to conclude that babies already know their skin color and that there are others who are of different color. What makes it even more wrong is that fact that many discriminate not based on color but based on culture. Again then this would assume that we are born knowing our cultural differences. If we are born with this knowledge I wonder what other knowledge we…