General questions about the Airbnb Community Commitment • Hacker News Board

Re: General questions about the Airbnb Community Commitment

#101

Post by OliverJones » Sat, Oct 29, 2016, 12:42 PM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #47

Airbnb can do whatever they want in property they own/lease. However since they 'share' (funny word that) people's private homes they will have to live with the fact that those people will refuse guests for whatever reasons they feel like, this is the flip side of the coin of not having a relationship where they are in control (employer, employee, owner of the premises). Airbnb wants to have its cake and eat it too,…

"What proof?" you ask? Housing antidiscrimination enforcement teams have been highly skilled at gathering this proof for well over a generation and making charges stick. Not sure about this? Ask your favorite search engine to look up "housing discrimination enforcement NYC" for example.

If Airbnb were a local chamber of commerce making bookings for bed and breakfast places, it might be valid that they're just a booking office.

But they're a major source of accommodations in large cities. As such they have to at least pretend to abide by those cities' antidiscrimination regulations. This policy is a way to do that without customizing the rules for each jurisdiction.

People are free to use less controversial ways to offer their property for short term rent. I do that, and not because I discriminate (I don't), but because I want to keep a little bit more wealth in my community rather than sending it all to Sand Hill Road.

Re: General questions about the Airbnb Community Commitment

#102

Post by Overtonwindow » Sat, Oct 29, 2016, 12:45 PM UTC

zabeltech wrote: post #56

I have personally experienced that many hosts do not like to rent to young males. Some even restrict this in their description i.e "only for females". I hope this discrimination ends now

That's discrimination. Blatantly. If that's in their description they should be reported.

Re: General questions about the Airbnb Community Commitment

#103

Post by golergka » Sat, Oct 29, 2016, 12:52 PM UTC

dkopi wrote: post #83

redthrowaway wrote: post #80

It's sad to see the tech community, which used to be very libertarian, move towards a hard-left progressive view of social issues. It wasn't that long ago that Friedman's arguments against equal pay laws[1] would have held sway here. The idea that the market punishes bigotry and so can be relied upon to advance freedom and equality used to be a core belief of the tech community. Now, it seems companies are falling ov…

There's nothing unlibertarian about a private business making up its own terms of services and privately enforcing them. That's exactly how the free market self regulates without the use of force.

When a single business dominates an entire industry in such a way, it's not just a "private business" anymore - it's an institution and should be treated as such.

Re: General questions about the Airbnb Community Commitment

#104

Post by qb8701skq » Sat, Oct 29, 2016, 12:52 PM UTC

hannob wrote: post #97

tomohawk wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not the problem. The problem is that Airbnb is making demands on what people do or don't do with their own homes far beyond providing bed and/or breakfast. They're making demands about how people think. My head is not their property. My home is not their property. It's improper and intolerant of them to make these kinds of demands. In fact, it's a form of totalitarianism to not do business with anyone who doe…

What's wrong with that? You don't have to use their service. They are not in a situation that they have to provide service to everyone. I don't see a problem when a company says "if you're a racist you're not allowed to use our service".

Indeed people should wake up and just ditch the social-control-freak Silicon Valley companies.

For Germany, start with http://www.zwischenmiete.de . Cheaper, better, less obnoxious than AirBnB. Good riddance.

Re: General questions about the Airbnb Community Commitment

#105

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Oct 29, 2016, 12:53 PM UTC

3pt14159 wrote: post #94

redthrowaway wrote: post #80

It's sad to see the tech community, which used to be very libertarian, move towards a hard-left progressive view of social issues. It wasn't that long ago that Friedman's arguments against equal pay laws[1] would have held sway here. The idea that the market punishes bigotry and so can be relied upon to advance freedom and equality used to be a core belief of the tech community. Now, it seems companies are falling ov…

We became leftists because libertarianism is harsh and unrealistic. Most people are not smart enough for a libertarian world they get swayed by propaganda too easily and are unable to judge risk correctly. It's more efficient to have technocrats guide the public and protect them from short sighted mistakes and evil corporations. Most people don't even understand the difference between a percentage point and a percent…

[deleted]

Re: General questions about the Airbnb Community Commitment

#106

Post by tomohawk » Sat, Oct 29, 2016, 12:56 PM UTC

hannob wrote: post #97

tomohawk wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not the problem. The problem is that Airbnb is making demands on what people do or don't do with their own homes far beyond providing bed and/or breakfast. They're making demands about how people think. My head is not their property. My home is not their property. It's improper and intolerant of them to make these kinds of demands. In fact, it's a form of totalitarianism to not do business with anyone who doe…

What's wrong with that? You don't have to use their service. They are not in a situation that they have to provide service to everyone. I don't see a problem when a company says "if you're a racist you're not allowed to use our service".

Airbnb is a guest in all the homes they're invited into. Now, they're acting the rude guest, bringing up politics and making demands on how people think. They can certainly do that, but it's pretty dumb. It's taking advantage. It's bullying.

I don't see the problem with a company just being tolerant.

Re: General questions about the Airbnb Community Commitment

#107

Post by robrenaud » Sat, Oct 29, 2016, 1:00 PM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #59

Vintila wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, Airbnb can do what they want with their property, namely their website and business. If you don't like it then they even outline what you can do in the linked article. This knife cuts both ways.

They are extending 'their website and business' into private property. That's a direct conflict without resolution, I confidently predict nothing will change and this is just window-dressing. Yes indeed, Airbnb can do what they want with their property, namely their website and business, and their customers property is not their business. > if you don't like it then they even outline what you can do in the linked art…

This means that you believe AirBNB will never ban a host for racism?

Re: General questions about the Airbnb Community Commitment

#108

Post by jrochkind1 » Sat, Oct 29, 2016, 1:10 PM UTC

Lucadg wrote: post #42

I used to work in a camping site in Northern Italy many years ago. We were openly told not to accept people from the south of Italy as they statistically were more noisy. I didn't like it but it actually made sense. It just wasn't viable to mix Germans and Napoleteans in a tight space. I guess Germans earned that right with politness. Then one day I let gipsies in and I almost got fired.

Replace "south of Italy/Napoleteans" with "Latinos", "Germans" with "whites", and "gipsies" with "blacks". Do you still feel okay saying that?

Re: General questions about the Airbnb Community Commitment

#109

Post by Lucadg » Sat, Oct 29, 2016, 1:12 PM UTC

hannob wrote: post #99

Lucadg wrote: post #42

I used to work in a camping site in Northern Italy many years ago. We were openly told not to accept people from the south of Italy as they statistically were more noisy. I didn't like it but it actually made sense. It just wasn't viable to mix Germans and Napoleteans in a tight space. I guess Germans earned that right with politness. Then one day I let gipsies in and I almost got fired.

What would make sense is to say "we only accept campers that are quiet at night - and we'll throw them out of they don't comply and disturb other people's sleep". What you did is racism. Now ever if your statistics were true (I doubt you properly measured that) it simply doesn't matter. Even if 90% of people from some region are noisy at night that doesn't justify rejecting the other 10%.

I think the decision to pre-filter was based on the fact that kicking someone out was extremely difficult. Police had to be involved or some really bad thing had to happen. So the approach "ok we let anyone in, these are the rules, if you don't respect them you are out" is for sure more fair but it just wouldn't work. Theory vs Reality. And when you have 2000 people in a tight space you kind of want to avoid these situations.

I have no statistics but we can safely assume that 30 years of experience have taught the camping managers what works and what doesn't. I think it was in their right to decide who comes in and who doesn't.

I'm Italian and if you won't let me into your crystal shop because I wave too much my hands when I talk and you're afraid I'll break something (I personally don't wave hands), I'll understand. I will be angry sure, but not with you: with the other hand waving italians.

Re: General questions about the Airbnb Community Commitment

#110

Post by tnone » Sat, Oct 29, 2016, 1:14 PM UTC

hannob wrote: post #97

tomohawk wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not the problem. The problem is that Airbnb is making demands on what people do or don't do with their own homes far beyond providing bed and/or breakfast. They're making demands about how people think. My head is not their property. My home is not their property. It's improper and intolerant of them to make these kinds of demands. In fact, it's a form of totalitarianism to not do business with anyone who doe…

What's wrong with that? You don't have to use their service. They are not in a situation that they have to provide service to everyone. I don't see a problem when a company says "if you're a racist you're not allowed to use our service".

Accusations like "racist" mainly flow towards pre-approved victim categories and are commonly used as a blunt weapon in oppression olympics. In those cases, there is no acceptable defense against it, because the reply will be along the lines of "omg, this racist is trying to excuse their racism". Guilty until proven super-guilty.

That's why this gets people's bristles up, because it reeks of the "reverse racism isn't real" and "racism requires structural oppression" dogma that has jumped the gap from post modern academia to tech by way of HR departments, always enforced by carefully worded but unmistakably our-way-or-the-highway totalism. If someone wants to be an arbiter of what is right without considering what happens when they are wrong, it's not justice they're after.

Outside of the Anglo Saxon sphere, this isn't such a big issue... Yet.