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Intel driven MacBook Pros have secondary ARM processor for Touch ID and security

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Re: Intel driven MacBook Pros have secondary ARM processor for Touch ID and security

#71
post #4

Not really that surprising. Your average laptop nowadays probably has more ARM cores than x86 cores. They're in all kinds of peripherials like wifi controllers, power supplies, harddisk controllers, GPU job control, heck even AMD's recent APUs come with an integrated Cortex-A5.[1] ARM cores are everywhere, people just don't know about it. [1] http://www.anandtech.com/show/6007/amd-2013-apus-to-include-...

Hell some (all?) Macbooks even have FPGAs

Re: Intel driven MacBook Pros have secondary ARM processor for Touch ID and security

#72
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I write a piece of malware that pops the camera on long enough to snap a single frame and then turn back off. The LED blinks, quite possibly too fast for you to notice. OTOH, you can delay the LED and have it very noticeably on for a second or two when it's software-controlled.

Good point, but then why not implement the delay in immutable (and trivial and cheap) hardware? Is this not both simpler and more secure?

I guess, yeah, you could do it in hardware. But I don't think, then, it ends up being directly connected to the power feed for the camera itself, yeah? You start creating false-status cases. (This is speculation; I am not an electronics wizard.)

Re: Intel driven MacBook Pros have secondary ARM processor for Touch ID and security

#73
post #4

Not really that surprising. Your average laptop nowadays probably has more ARM cores than x86 cores. They're in all kinds of peripherials like wifi controllers, power supplies, harddisk controllers, GPU job control, heck even AMD's recent APUs come with an integrated Cortex-A5.[1] ARM cores are everywhere, people just don't know about it. [1] http://www.anandtech.com/show/6007/amd-2013-apus-to-include-...

Whenever this topic occurs, I send this in http://spritesmods.com/?art=hddhack&page=1 Ubiquitous com...fusion.

I love that.

I had a hard drive that had a firmware fault, and I repaired it using a USB-Serial converter, taking the pcb off the drive to temporarily mask off a connector, and then issuing a couple of commands. http://superuser.com/questions/365999/how-do-i-recover-data-...

http://superuser.com/questions/365999/how-do-i-recover-data-...

Re: Intel driven MacBook Pros have secondary ARM processor for Touch ID and security

#74
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And what if I turn on the camera for a tenth of a second, take a picture, and turn it off. You won't notice the LED being on for a tenth of a second. Software makes it easier to prevent such things.

Just wrote a test app on macOS that initializes the camera, gets the first video frame, and turns it off. You definitely notice the bright green LED being on for a split second.

You only notice it immediately if you're looking for it. I've gone minutes with the camera on before noticing the LED while I was distracted by other stuff on the screen.

Re: Intel driven MacBook Pros have secondary ARM processor for Touch ID and security

#75
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have a point though. Why would there be any software that controls the LED? Is it not more secure to have it hooked up directly to the camera power line and turn them both on and off inseparably?

I write a piece of malware that pops the camera on long enough to snap a single frame and then turn back off. The LED blinks, quite possibly too fast for you to notice. OTOH, you can delay the LED and have it very noticeably on for a second or two when it's software-controlled.

How 'bout some pulse shaping. Rising edge of the camera power triggers a latch, whose output is pulse-shaped so that you get a little attention-catching "LED flash" when the camera turns on (brightness tapers off quickly) and is just dimly / visibly lit beyond that. This could be done with 1970s hardware with maybe two chips and some passives. Maybe one chip if you're getting ingenious.

Re: Intel driven MacBook Pros have secondary ARM processor for Touch ID and security

#76
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whenever this topic occurs, I send this in http://spritesmods.com/?art=hddhack&page=1 Ubiquitous com...fusion.

I love that. I had a hard drive that had a firmware fault, and I repaired it using a USB-Serial converter, taking the pcb off the drive to temporarily mask off a connector, and then issuing a couple of commands. http://superuser.com/questions/365999/how-do-i-recover-data-... http://superuser.com/questions/365999/how-do-i-recover-data-...

You must have suffered full mental god complex for a few days after that. I'm happy when I succeed in creating a bootable live iso usb key with grub2...

Re: Intel driven MacBook Pros have secondary ARM processor for Touch ID and security

#77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not?

The basic idea is that this is an area of the system that even you as the owner cannot inspect, but I'll let others do the bulk of the explaining: https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.en.html http://boingboing.net/2012/08/23/civilwar.html http://boingboing.net/2012/01/10/lockdown.html

It's interesting to me that you feel this way. Do you also object to the Secure Enclave architecture on the iPhone?

Re: Intel driven MacBook Pros have secondary ARM processor for Touch ID and security

#78
post #45

Quick question -- what's so good about ARM specifically? Aren't there other minimal architectures, maybe even one with lower/no licensing costs?

I believe MIPS is cheaper for the average Joe to license, but Apple is already an ARM licensee with high volume so they probably get a hot deal. Also they already have ARM IP and >20 years experience integrating it.

Besides, ARM is a fine architecture and it's popular these days, so why not?

Re: Intel driven MacBook Pros have secondary ARM processor for Touch ID and security

#79
I think it's a pity that the Touch Bar was not designed with a dedicated area that can only be rendered by the T1 processor directly. If that were the case, then network services could communicate directly with the user via the Touch Bar, authenticating themselves with cryptography that cannot be broken by anything running on the main system processor.

This would have provided a truly trusted mechanism for apps to communicate with the user. For instance, your bank could authenticate itself with you via the Touch Bar.. If the Touch Bar display is controlled from the host OS, then malware could pretend to be your bank, on the Touch Bar.

Re: Intel driven MacBook Pros have secondary ARM processor for Touch ID and security

#80
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given that iSight and Facetime HD cameras required drivers and firmware to get running under Linux, I would be positively surprised if the new camera is easier to set up, meaning I don't think it works right now. Even the existing camera support isn't 100%, with features like suspend/resume being flaky, all due to it being reverse engineered. That said, the options for developer laptops has shifted in favor of genera…

Sure, but the laptops you describe do not have secure enclave. If I want that level of security on Linux what can I do?

What would the enclave do for you if you're running an OS that doesn't support Apple Pay or Touch ID?
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