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Intel driven MacBook Pros have secondary ARM processor for Touch ID and security

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Re: Intel driven MacBook Pros have secondary ARM processor for Touch ID and security

#61

Post by wlesieutre »

TillE wrote: post #58
wlesieutre wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a lefty, I'm looking forward to not having the headphone cable dangling across my papers area. Suck it, righties! It's your turn to be slightly inconvenienced!

But...lots of headphones only connect on the left side, and run the connection for the right earphone along the headband. I'm pretty sure it's always left or both, never right. Putting the jack on the right really screws that up, even for lefties!

That's fine, it can loop around the back and run along the left edge of the computer. Better than having to stick straight out there.

Re: Intel driven MacBook Pros have secondary ARM processor for Touch ID and security

#62

Post by hackuser »

sctb wrote: post #35
revelation wrote: post #8

Who cares, now the LED is connected to the "secure enclave" ARM, previously it was connected to the SMC ARM. The point is: no frikken ARM should control the LED.

We detached this flagged subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12824767 and marked it off-topic.

Why is it off-topic? According to the article, the T1 secures the camera, and according to other commenters, one way it does it is to control the LED. Many other comments talk about the LED.

Re: Intel driven MacBook Pros have secondary ARM processor for Touch ID and security

#63

Post by StringyBob »

userbinator wrote: post #18
ginko wrote: post #4

Not really that surprising. Your average laptop nowadays probably has more ARM cores than x86 cores. They're in all kinds of peripherials like wifi controllers, power supplies, harddisk controllers, GPU job control, heck even AMD's recent APUs come with an integrated Cortex-A5.[1] ARM cores are everywhere, people just don't know about it. [1] http://www.anandtech.com/show/6007/amd-2013-apus-to-include-...

Laptops have what is known as an "embedded controller" to handle peripherals like keyboard/touchpad, power management, and fan control. Most of them seem to be low-power 8/16-bit MCUs like 8051 and H8S, but I wouldn't be surprised if newer ones use ARM too. ...and don't forget Intel ME, which is not ARM but another processor in the system.

System-on-chips (most big chips these days) are so complex they usually have the same thing one level deeper: On chip embedded controllers, often an mcu.

You might find that 'one arm chip' has many independent arm cpu cores carrying out different functions mostly completely hidden from end user behind firmware or rom

Re: Intel driven MacBook Pros have secondary ARM processor for Touch ID and security

#64

Post by eropple »

krastanov wrote: post #11
denzil_correa wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ARM was not bought to power the LED, it was bought in for TouchID. The camera LED is the icing, not the cake.

They have a point though. Why would there be any software that controls the LED? Is it not more secure to have it hooked up directly to the camera power line and turn them both on and off inseparably?

I write a piece of malware that pops the camera on long enough to snap a single frame and then turn back off. The LED blinks, quite possibly too fast for you to notice.

OTOH, you can delay the LED and have it very noticeably on for a second or two when it's software-controlled.

Re: Intel driven MacBook Pros have secondary ARM processor for Touch ID and security

#65

Post by 4ad »

People who claim that every computer is full of microcontrollers are missing the point. This is not a microcontroller, it's full SoC running (more or less) the same kernel used on the main CPU.

It's more similar to the LOM and IPMI systems found on server computers rather than anything else.

Re: Intel driven MacBook Pros have secondary ARM processor for Touch ID and security

#66

Post by krastanov »

cm3 wrote: post #17
krastanov wrote: post #9

Any idea whether this secure enclave will work if you are running Linux? (I like the hardware, but I am more used to the Linux/GNU/gnome software)

Given that iSight and Facetime HD cameras required drivers and firmware to get running under Linux, I would be positively surprised if the new camera is easier to set up, meaning I don't think it works right now. Even the existing camera support isn't 100%, with features like suspend/resume being flaky, all due to it being reverse engineered. That said, the options for developer laptops has shifted in favor of genera…

Sure, but the laptops you describe do not have secure enclave. If I want that level of security on Linux what can I do?

Re: Intel driven MacBook Pros have secondary ARM processor for Touch ID and security

#67

Post by krastanov »

eropple wrote: post #64
krastanov wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have a point though. Why would there be any software that controls the LED? Is it not more secure to have it hooked up directly to the camera power line and turn them both on and off inseparably?

I write a piece of malware that pops the camera on long enough to snap a single frame and then turn back off. The LED blinks, quite possibly too fast for you to notice. OTOH, you can delay the LED and have it very noticeably on for a second or two when it's software-controlled.

Good point, but then why not implement the delay in immutable (and trivial and cheap) hardware? Is this not both simpler and more secure?

Re: Intel driven MacBook Pros have secondary ARM processor for Touch ID and security

#68

Post by plucas »

shawkinaw wrote: post #12
fowlerpower wrote: post #10

The one thing I will say is even though Apple's software quality lately has taken a hit. Their commitment to security has only gotten stronger. The secure enclave, hardware level security, all of the things that came up with the FBI request have become a self serving prophecy for them. I applaud them for this and it looks like the MacBook Pro is going to be one of the most secure laptops around. Nothing is perfect of…

You mean the headphone jack that is still there?

He's probably referring to the iPhone 7's lack of one.

Re: Intel driven MacBook Pros have secondary ARM processor for Touch ID and security

#69

Post by sctb »

hackuser wrote: post #62
sctb wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We detached this flagged subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12824767 and marked it off-topic.

Why is it off-topic? According to the article, the T1 secures the camera, and according to other commenters, one way it does it is to control the LED. Many other comments talk about the LED.

That was my mistake in the above comment. We've not marked it off-topic since it was killed by user flags, which is why we detached it.

Re: Intel driven MacBook Pros have secondary ARM processor for Touch ID and security

#70

Post by GuiA »

vigilant wrote: post #31
adrianN wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want my camera to capture pictures without the LED being on, ever.

And what if I turn on the camera for a tenth of a second, take a picture, and turn it off. You won't notice the LED being on for a tenth of a second. Software makes it easier to prevent such things.

Just wrote a test app on macOS that initializes the camera, gets the first video frame, and turns it off. You definitely notice the bright green LED being on for a split second.
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