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General questions about the Airbnb Community Commitment

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Re: General questions about the Airbnb Community Commitment

#131

Post by jacquesm »

csallen wrote: post #129
gaius wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If AirBnB is able to dictate what it's landlords can and can't do that makes them disguised employees no? Something else the government is good at sniffing out!

No. Most businesses can dictate what its users do and deny them service for refusing to follow rules. This has nothing to do with employee status.

In the Airbnb case that would be a very thin bit of ice to skate on but these cases usually hinge on a large number of things that can be tested and this would be one of those things. Other such items are your ability to set your own schedule, your own prices and so on.

Re: General questions about the Airbnb Community Commitment

#132

Post by csallen »

golergka wrote: post #103
dkopi wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's nothing unlibertarian about a private business making up its own terms of services and privately enforcing them. That's exactly how the free market self regulates without the use of force.

When a single business dominates an entire industry in such a way, it's not just a "private business" anymore - it's an institution and should be treated as such.

I must admit that it's amusing to see libertarians complaining about the decisions made by a private business and implying that the government should step in.

Re: General questions about the Airbnb Community Commitment

#133

Post by csallen »

redthrowaway wrote: post #80

It's sad to see the tech community, which used to be very libertarian, move towards a hard-left progressive view of social issues. It wasn't that long ago that Friedman's arguments against equal pay laws[1] would have held sway here. The idea that the market punishes bigotry and so can be relied upon to advance freedom and equality used to be a core belief of the tech community. Now, it seems companies are falling ov…

This is the market punishing bigotry. People are making noise and demanding change, alternative businesses are being created to address these people's needs, and Airbnb is modifying its policies in response.

Re: General questions about the Airbnb Community Commitment

#134

Post by matthewowen »

fma wrote: post #86
jacquesm wrote: post #47

Airbnb can do whatever they want in property they own/lease. However since they 'share' (funny word that) people's private homes they will have to live with the fact that those people will refuse guests for whatever reasons they feel like, this is the flip side of the coin of not having a relationship where they are in control (employer, employee, owner of the premises). Airbnb wants to have its cake and eat it too,…

The protected class citizens have a line drawn somewhere. The federal courts agree for roommates, you can discriminate because a roommate is a more intimate relationship than selling a house or renting out a house. Since AirBnB is supposedly sharing...I don't see how that's different from getting roommates. They would have to reclassify their whole stance on being about "sharing economy" and admit they are more for r…

They already classify properties as shared room vs private room vs entire place, so this isn't an issue.

Re: General questions about the Airbnb Community Commitment

#135

Post by csallen »

jacquesm wrote: post #131
csallen wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Most businesses can dictate what its users do and deny them service for refusing to follow rules. This has nothing to do with employee status.

In the Airbnb case that would be a very thin bit of ice to skate on but these cases usually hinge on a large number of things that can be tested and this would be one of those things. Other such items are your ability to set your own schedule, your own prices and so on.

Yeah, I don't disagree with you. Just disagree with the parent who implied that Airbnb's new rules are sufficient for classifying landlords as employees. ("If AirBnB is able to dictate what it's landlords can and can't do that makes them disguised employees") They're not even close to sufficient.

Re: General questions about the Airbnb Community Commitment

#136

Post by ryuker16 »

chillydawg wrote: post #81
gaur wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> After all, what proof will they use to tell a host they are discriminating. Testers. That's partially how the government got evidence to sue Trump in the 1970s for housing discrimination.

It's pretty easy. Airbnb have all the data they need. Infer the race/gender/sexuality of each guest using standard techniques and then look at relative acceptance/decline rates among hosts for those groups you wish to measure discrimination for. It's a few days work with a db/excel/python.

Airbnb doesn't ask race.

And quite alot of people come as 2nd guest so I have zero idea what even their name is.

Not to mention, as a black airbnb host, minority guests were pretty rare. Had a few Asians and one black guy.

Re: General questions about the Airbnb Community Commitment

#137

Post by red_admiral »

chillydawg wrote: post #81
gaur wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> After all, what proof will they use to tell a host they are discriminating. Testers. That's partially how the government got evidence to sue Trump in the 1970s for housing discrimination.

It's pretty easy. Airbnb have all the data they need. Infer the race/gender/sexuality of each guest using standard techniques and then look at relative acceptance/decline rates among hosts for those groups you wish to measure discrimination for. It's a few days work with a db/excel/python.

> Infer the race/gender/sexuality of each guest using standard techniques

I'm curious what the techniques are, especially with regards to sexuality? Or do you mean ask everyone when setting up their profile?

Re: General questions about the Airbnb Community Commitment

#138

Post by ryuker16 »

sonink wrote: post #34

Somehow Airbnb mostly doesnt work for me. You find a nice/cheap place to stay, message the host and wait for 24 hours for a revert. Fairly often, the host declines for seemingly specious reasons. The bigger problem is the wait than the refusal. An Indian startup called OyoRooms has a much better solution to this problem.

Instabook

Re: General questions about the Airbnb Community Commitment

#139

Post by ryuker16 »

MarkMc wrote: post #76

Despite this, I feel Airbnb isn't doing enough to fight discrimination. They need to ensure that the host cannot see anything that can identify a user's race, ethnicity, age, etc. No photos, no names, and a moderated comments and rating system. Until they do that they are placing their profits above principle.

They actually pick the shittist jpeg image filter/cropping I've seen.

Also, many guest like to pick super obscured photos or mixed group photos. I understand why hosts do it but not why customers.

I barely have an idea what many of my guests look like. Some don't even have headshots

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