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George Hotz cancels his Tesla Autopilot-like ‘comma one’

electrek.co

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Re: George Hotz cancels his Tesla Autopilot-like ‘comma one’

#441

Post by firasd »

phjesusthatguy3 wrote: post #440
phasmantistes wrote: post #223

I love this paragraph of the Request: > The singular includes the plural; the plural includes the singular. The masculine gender includes the feminine and neuter genders; and the neuter gender includes the masculine and feminine genders. "And" as well as "or" shall be construed either disjunctively or conjunctively, to bring within scope of this Special Order all responses that might otherwise be construed to be outs…

It didn't spell out what the definition of 'is' is, though.

The part about verb tenses is specifically referring to the "what 'is' is" loophoole.

Re: George Hotz cancels his Tesla Autopilot-like ‘comma one’

#442

Post by smallnamespace »

BurningFrog wrote: post #430
smallnamespace wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> no "set 3" of regulators that issue orders during the day-to-day running of the business You mentioned 2 branches of government, the legislative and judicial. But the third branch, the executive, does (in part) exactly what you described above. Taken to the logical extreme, your view means we should replace every government adminstrator with a court, including for mundane decisions like whether to grant a marriage…

The marriage license argument is textbook strawman. That is not regulation of an industry, and you know it.

I agree, but you proposed a stringent definition for 'Rule of Law' that seemed to eliminate the possibility of government regulators possessing independent decision-making authority over citizens and businesses alike.

I mean, how do even mundane things like zoning codes and work permits work in this universe where there are no regulators and gov't bureaucrats? Everything must go through a court? Why are you so sure a group of 12 random people will come to decisions more effectively than a bureaucrat in a domain that requires specialized knowledge?

In any case, I fully agree that sometimes regulators, or regulations are bad. But this particular case is an example of regulation working as designed. The NHTSA has been at the forefront of working with the self-driving car industry to make sure there is a legal path to developing, testing, and releasing this tech. Textbook example of regulators doing their job without imposing undue burdens on the regulated industry.

Re: George Hotz cancels his Tesla Autopilot-like ‘comma one’

#443

Post by firasd »

zeveb wrote: post #376
gavman wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. The NHTSA memo seems extremely reasonable to me. If you're going to put to market a product where the smallest malfunction could easily kill many people (both those using your product and those around them), answering a couple regulation questions seems like a small hurdle to pass. Nothing here is saying "we want to shut you down", it's saying "we want to make sure you pass the most basic safety standards".…

> That's an obvious part of a government's duty to keep it's citizens safe. Which article of the Constitution is that? I don't seem to recall it.

The Commerce Clause is often invoked in this type of regulation

Re: George Hotz cancels his Tesla Autopilot-like ‘comma one’

#444

Post by eanzenberg »

smallnamespace wrote: post #252
wyager wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you have all the random crap the NHTSA demanded ready to go if this wasn't a pre-existing regulation?

What's random about it? It's basically: - What's in the installation + operating manual? - Items 1-3 - Is it safe? Did you do testing? How? Items 4-6 - What vehicles does it work on? What happens if you screw up during installation? Items 7-8 - What happens if an owner screws up and puts in an unsupported car? Item 9 - Did you think about whether this keeps the car compliant with other safety regulations? In particul…

#10-12 is gg. Removing the mirror for your device? Wat?

Re: George Hotz cancels his Tesla Autopilot-like ‘comma one’

#445

Post by switch007 »

phasmantistes wrote: post #223

I love this paragraph of the Request: > The singular includes the plural; the plural includes the singular. The masculine gender includes the feminine and neuter genders; and the neuter gender includes the masculine and feminine genders. "And" as well as "or" shall be construed either disjunctively or conjunctively, to bring within scope of this Special Order all responses that might otherwise be construed to be outs…

IIRC my employment contract has something along the lines of implying that if a word was accidentally omitted (or added) then the sentence and paragraph is to still retain its original intended meaning (?!)

Re: George Hotz cancels his Tesla Autopilot-like ‘comma one’

#446

Post by tonyarkles »

Kadin wrote: post #390
uw_rob wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another really cool use case will be sending your car to drive around the block for an hour or go back to your house and park, while you are going out to places. Beats paying the $10 to park for an hour.

Lots of interesting effects there, all the way up to basic urban land-use decisions. Suddenly the price people will pay for parking is going to be closely related to the price of gas. The maximum value of a parking space in the city is basically the cost to send the car back out to some suburban parking garage during the day and have it come back in later for you. My guess is that the market-clearing price is going t…

And if that place that it goes to charge itself happens to have a pile of solar and wind, even better! Way easier to do a bit installation in a less populated area than right in the centre of downtown.

Re: George Hotz cancels his Tesla Autopilot-like ‘comma one’

#447

Post by forgottenpass »

thfuran wrote: post #364
TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would have assumed that anyone serious about releasing this type of product would have made contact with the relevant government departments and worked with them along the way to ensure they meet the requirements. Also, the documentation being asked for is something the company should be able to put together fairly easily because they ought to have asked and answered these questions along the way to building the pr…

Yeah, determining the requirements of a product you are attempting to produce ought not to be left to the end of design.

Requirements for a product? Sounds too much like a waterfall.

Have you ever considered establishing product direction through use cases branded as "stories" and pulling them out of your ass every two weeks?

/s

Re: George Hotz cancels his Tesla Autopilot-like ‘comma one’

#448

Post by argonaut »

sedachv wrote: post #296
argonaut wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not "similar tech" at all. Yes, both approaches involve some machine learning (which is a huge field). But Cruise's approach is similar to Google/Uber's approach in that it relies on LIDAR. I'd assume (but might be wrong) in that it also relies heavily on premapping, as does the Google/Uber approach. Comma's approach was complete end-to-end learning with just a single camera (to give you some context, research…

There are more details in this lecture Hotz gave at Berkeley this September: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hxoke1lDJ9w One of the things that seemed missing from the lecture when I watched it is how data was going to be collected for handling exceptional situations/collision avoidance. Hotz also glossed over the question in this interview from July: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zy_07g2IrM#t=35m I suspect they r…

Yeah. Those are all really hard problems. Visual SLAM is far from solved, especially if since this is only monocular SLAM. And even if he did solve that to a pretty decent level (which is already multiple top-PhD theses worth of research), that would only get him to the point of where he would be is he had just mounted LIDAR on cars and said "now what?"

Re: George Hotz cancels his Tesla Autopilot-like ‘comma one’

#449

Post by henrikschroder »

stale2002 wrote: post #343
x0x0 wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And we've now, at the behest of these companies, redefined statists down to: - thinks it's OK for neighbors and local government to have a say in whether people run a hotel next door, possibly sharing a roof or even a wall - thinks it's OK to require pretty reasonable background checks ala Austin for taxi drivers - thinks it's OK to have some safety regulations around self driving cars sharing our roads beyond hey, i…

Congratulations, by waiting a year to implement self driving cars, through overly burdening government regulations, you just killed ten thousand people. What about those people? The people who WILL die in car accidents next year unless we do something about it. Screw them, right?

Noone is arguing about the benefits of self-driving technology in general.

The question at hand is: Does this specific piece of equipment actually work as described, and move us towards that goal, or is it a piece of cobbled together junk that will cause more accidents? If you want to sell this specific piece of equipment on the consumer market, you'd better have a good answer to that question, and be able to back it up with more than "hey, it worked for me this morning!"

Re: George Hotz cancels his Tesla Autopilot-like ‘comma one’

#450

Post by dilemma »

hartator wrote: post #120
gavman wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. The NHTSA memo seems extremely reasonable to me. If you're going to put to market a product where the smallest malfunction could easily kill many people (both those using your product and those around them), answering a couple regulation questions seems like a small hurdle to pass. Nothing here is saying "we want to shut you down", it's saying "we want to make sure you pass the most basic safety standards".…

I feel $21,000 fine per day sounds pretty like "we want to shut you down". He never presented comma.ai as an autopilot but as a very smart line assist and adaptive cruise control.

No, they claim it to be AI. It's in the name.
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