FBI Reopens Clinton E-Mail Probe Less Than Two Weeks Before Vote • Hacker News Board

Re: FBI Reopens Clinton E-Mail Probe Less Than Two Weeks Before Vote

#191

Post by harshreality » Fri, Oct 28, 2016, 7:33 PM UTC

danenania wrote: post #116

Ok, so Hillary Clinton was and continues to be a corrupt, deceitful, and self-interested operator. She's doubtlessly done all kinds of both borderline and outright illegal things throughout her career. No big surprise here. If elected, she will continue to work the highly imperfect system we've got in lots of shady and questionable ways. But please, let's get real. For all her numerous faults, her opponent represents…

When your argument against Trump is a "FEAR UP" campaign without any substantive support or details, you've lost the argument. Trump supporters are not going to be frightened by your hyperbolic claims, and on the Hillary side you're talking into an echo chamber. It's easy to refute two gross generalizations you made:

Enforcing immigration policy, even pausing immigration in certain cases, is not "closing" open society. It's recognizing that there's a dark side to allowing arbitrary numbers of immigrants and refugees bypassing the normal immigration process, and it's taking a step back and figuring out in advance, rationally, what policy we want to enforce, rather than not enforcing any meaningful policy and getting stuck with the results down the road.

The free speech threat from regulating big (and maybe not-so-big) media is troublesome, I agree. However, it's accepted, even more on the far left than on the far right, that pretty much all media, advertising, and entertainment is propaganda. What happens if we continue to fail to recognize this propaganda as a threat to the kind of democracy we hopefully want—a democracy built on rational inquiry, rather than one built on the crest of emotion, on propaganda-fueled mass hysteria?

You want democracy? This is what Hillary's "democracy" looks (sounds) like: http://observer.com/2016/10/2006-audio-emerges-of-hillary-cl... (direct soundcloud link https://soundcloud.com/user-30899546/hrc-determine-who-win-1 )

Re: FBI Reopens Clinton E-Mail Probe Less Than Two Weeks Before Vote

#192

Post by hackuser » Fri, Oct 28, 2016, 7:33 PM UTC

aaron-lebo wrote: post #104

hackuser wrote: post #28

To say the obvious: There is great risk of the FBI and/or Comey trying to influence the outcome of the election. Earlier, when Comey said Clinton had been "extremely careless", it seemed to overstep his bounds: He played judge and jury, and convicted her without trial. To do this two weeks before the election raises very serious questions about the U.S.'s most fundamental institutions, rule of law, and democracy. Eve…

> EDIT: This is not a partisan concern. Everyone needs these institutions, democracy and the rule of law. It's not a partisan concern and we should be concerned about the rule of law...except in this situation? Because that's what it sounds like you are saying. A society that lets its leaders do whatever they want without repercussions but "lesser" people get punished is not one particularly concerned about the rule…

I agree that Hillary Clinton should be subject to the law just like everyone else; that's not my point.

The FBI has the power to influence elections if it chooses to. Re-opening the investigation 11 days before election day fits the profile of trying to influence the election; it's an "October Surprise". But 'fitting the profile' is not conclusive and it's also very possible that re-opening it now was apolitical. We don't know enough right now to prove it either way.

My point is that we should seriously consider the possibility. Nobody wants the FBI trying to influence elections. Recall that another institution, the Supreme Court, decided a recent Presidential election on a party-line vote. A core value of the U.S. is that voters decide, whether or not I happen to agree with their decision. I'm afraid that could slip away if we turn a blind eye.

Re: FBI Reopens Clinton E-Mail Probe Less Than Two Weeks Before Vote

#193

Post by abootstrapper » Fri, Oct 28, 2016, 7:34 PM UTC

Everyone shouting "lock her up" doesn't know exactly what they're "locking her up" for, except for something vaguely relate to emails and the fact they don't like her. Oh, also, they've already decided she's guilty of "emails." Either the FBI says "Clinton is guilty of emails" or the system is rigged.

Re: FBI Reopens Clinton E-Mail Probe Less Than Two Weeks Before Vote

#194

Post by swissoak » Fri, Oct 28, 2016, 7:35 PM UTC

Delmania wrote: post #187

swissoak wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is all disingenuous hyperbole. There are plenty of terrible things to pin on Trump without inflating bullshit memes. There is a nugget of truth to some of what you say, but it is not said or meant in the way you state it, and there's no nuggets of truth in anything I have seen that has anything to do with subverting the voting system.

This is how I know you've never listened to anything Trump has said on the campaign trail. In fact, just yesterday, he said the nation should cancel the election and name him the winner: http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/27/politics/donald-trump-cancel-e... .

He was obviously not serious in a literal sense of his words. He was making a point. It'd be like being a football coach shit talking before a game - "the other team should give up, they don't stand a chance". He doesn't literally mean they should give up.

This is so blindly obvious to me and anyone else who's capable of a rational thought. I cannot believe you are seriously try to suggest he meant that in the sense that he wants to subvert the election process.

Re: FBI Reopens Clinton E-Mail Probe Less Than Two Weeks Before Vote

#195

Post by luxuryballs » Fri, Oct 28, 2016, 7:36 PM UTC

MaxfordAndSons wrote: post #178

swissoak wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>her opponent represents the very real specter of the end of democracy and the closing of our free society Let me get this straight. Hillary intentionally subverted the democratic process by having the DNC work against Sanders. We have concrete evidence of her working with one of her PACs, which again is highly illegal and subverting our democratic process. She has shady and inappropriate meetings with people respons…

> Hillary intentionally subverted the democratic process by having the DNC work against Sanders. Sanders was basically an independent running as a Dem. Even though I would have preferred him, it's ridiculous to expect the party not to be preferential towards the inside candidate who has decades of connections. Also primaries are not subject to the same level of protections or expectations of institutional impartialit…

To jail his political opponents? That sounds like a convenient way of spinning the fact that he wants Hillary Clinton to be properly investigated, the fact that she is a political opponent has nothing to do with her crimes.

Dang... a President who wants to follow the laws and not give special passes to those in power? We can't have that!

The fact that Hillary is able to get away with criminal behavior WHILE IN OFFICE is one thing, but why anyone would want her in office again is beyond me. Why would the democrats even want to risk that?

Re: FBI Reopens Clinton E-Mail Probe Less Than Two Weeks Before Vote

#196

Post by maxerickson » Fri, Oct 28, 2016, 7:36 PM UTC

vectorpush wrote: post #170

williadc wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Impeachment doesn't mean she will be forced to resign. Look at what happened with Bill Clinton. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_of_Bill_Clinton

I understand that, that's why I said "impeached AND forced to resign" :)

If the Senate convicts, the impeached individual is removed from office, they don't need to resign (and I guess won't save face by doing it once they are impeached).

Re: FBI Reopens Clinton E-Mail Probe Less Than Two Weeks Before Vote

#197

Post by danenania » Fri, Oct 28, 2016, 7:36 PM UTC

swissoak wrote: post #147

danenania wrote: post #116

Ok, so Hillary Clinton was and continues to be a corrupt, deceitful, and self-interested operator. She's doubtlessly done all kinds of both borderline and outright illegal things throughout her career. No big surprise here. If elected, she will continue to work the highly imperfect system we've got in lots of shady and questionable ways. But please, let's get real. For all her numerous faults, her opponent represents…

>her opponent represents the very real specter of the end of democracy and the closing of our free society Let me get this straight. Hillary intentionally subverted the democratic process by having the DNC work against Sanders. We have concrete evidence of her working with one of her PACs, which again is highly illegal and subverting our democratic process. She has shady and inappropriate meetings with people respons…

The stuff you're talking about is awful, but it's par for the course in the system we have. It shouldn't need to be said, but it can get a LOT worse.

If you really care about things like democracy, human rights, civil liberties, and freedom of speech, handing the country to an egomaniacal authoritarian just to prove a point is the height of strategic stupidity.

Re: FBI Reopens Clinton E-Mail Probe Less Than Two Weeks Before Vote

#198

Post by Delmania » Fri, Oct 28, 2016, 7:37 PM UTC

Comey was legally obligated to tell Congress this as his office had told Congress that it was finished reviewing the evidence. In this election of course, Trump supporters will look at this as a sign of hillary's crookedness, and HRC supporters will look at this as a way to sway the election.

Also, the emails in question are not from Clinton and were never withheld in the original investigation. They appear to come from the devices of Anthony Weinar and his ex-wife.

Also, as more than one person has reported, the case was never closed.

Re: FBI Reopens Clinton E-Mail Probe Less Than Two Weeks Before Vote

#199

Post by freehunter » Fri, Oct 28, 2016, 7:38 PM UTC

danenania wrote: post #116

Ok, so Hillary Clinton was and continues to be a corrupt, deceitful, and self-interested operator. She's doubtlessly done all kinds of both borderline and outright illegal things throughout her career. No big surprise here. If elected, she will continue to work the highly imperfect system we've got in lots of shady and questionable ways. But please, let's get real. For all her numerous faults, her opponent represents…

Nothing Trump has said or done in any way improves the suitability of Clinton for president. If Trump did get elected, maybe it would shock the nation into actually caring about who they pick as their nominee?

Re: FBI Reopens Clinton E-Mail Probe Less Than Two Weeks Before Vote

#200

Post by yourapostasy » Fri, Oct 28, 2016, 7:38 PM UTC

koolba wrote: post #165

jonknee wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Technically it had never been closed in the first place, so if you want to be technical Chaffetz is still full of shit. https://twitter.com/Tom_Winter/status/792065775658012677 https://twitter.com/CBSNews/status/792063653919031296

> Technically it had never been closed in the first place, so if you want to be technical Chaffetz is still full of shit. I'll give you the point on being technically correct (and Chaffetz being full of...) but counter that by that logic she's been under FBI investigation this whole time.

> ...but counter that by that logic she's been under FBI investigation this whole time.

Interesting. Has there ever been a Fortune 500 board of directors in a CEO selection process under way with a CEO candidate personally under FBI investigation say, "oh, that's okay, you're still one of our two top choices"? If not, it is a peculiar juxtaposition.

While an investigation most assuredly does not pass the "guilty until proven innocent" bar, CEO's have been summarily fired by boards or left for the good of the company simply for being personally under FBI investigation. For the political geeks/wonks among us, can you please explain to this layperson how Clinton's situation differs?