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Tomb venerated as burial place of Christ exposed for first time in centuries

news.nationalgeographic.com

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Re: Tomb venerated as burial place of Christ exposed for first time in centuries

#61

Post by antognini »

alsetmusic wrote: post #59
p333347 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am constantly seeking to remind her that it is a lack of lightheartedness that is at the rock of extremism....I know the likelihood that I'll ever succeed is small, but it's important to me to wake people from what I consider to be a way of thinking that impairs sound judgement (say, when voting or choosing how to react to world politics). I'm not against religion or the right to practice religion, just its abili…

> Have you considered what is trivial and lighthearted to you might be deeply offensive to her? No doubt. Perhaps I could have been clearer. There is no version of a joke about her religion that isn't offensive to her. And yes, this is indeed the basis for the beginnings of extremism, although not full blown extremism by itself. If you can't hear or read something about your religion that is contrary to your strict b…

I'm reminded of G.K. Chesterton's quip: "It is the test of a great religion whether you can joke about it." Chesterton was a very devout Catholic.

Re: Tomb venerated as burial place of Christ exposed for first time in centuries

#62

Post by etse »

ohthehugemanate wrote: post #31

I always find stories like this fascinating. We're talking about a place where a mythical event was supposed to occur. It's like analyzing the place where Promethius first brought fire, or the spot where Osiris was resurrected. Maybe interesting for anthropology, but by no means the 'hard science' implied by the tone and presentation of the article. Of course they're OUR myths, so it's important that we describe them…

It's fascinating to me that your strong belief (ie faith) that this is a myth should cause you to not be truth-seeking and thoughtful.

I also can't see how the article's tone is "hard science". It uses words like "venerated", "Christian tradition", "sacred", and "cultural heritage" so I don't read presuppositions in it, and I don't recall seeing a hypothesis posed.

One of the main points of the article was that there are a lot of people and representatives of faith involved, and if the result of "hard science" research is "peace and mutual respect" (as the article quoted), then I would take that over LHC results every time.

Re: Tomb venerated as burial place of Christ exposed for first time in centuries

#63

Post by azernik »

danieltillett wrote: post #54
ZanyProgrammer wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As the above poster said, its a very mainstream view that some Josephus mentions are valid, some obviously not.

It is a very complex area, but the sections that are thought to be valid don’t really say much about Jesus. Even if they did, Josephus was not contemporary with Jesus. There really are no historical records of Jesus that are contemporary. The earliest are the letters of Paul and they were written decades after Jesus lived. Paul himself says he never met Jesus (except by revelation).

There are very few historical figures of that period (especially ones of such little contemporary importance) that we have a lot of really-contemporary written accounts of. By comparison, we have no contemporary accounts of Socrates, a much more prominent figure, in a much more literate subculture.

But yes, agreeing with you again (hello from the other thread!) from the other end - the authentic bits tell us next to nothing about this character.

Re: Tomb venerated as burial place of Christ exposed for first time in centuries

#64

Post by ZanyProgrammer »

azernik wrote: post #63
danieltillett wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a very complex area, but the sections that are thought to be valid don’t really say much about Jesus. Even if they did, Josephus was not contemporary with Jesus. There really are no historical records of Jesus that are contemporary. The earliest are the letters of Paul and they were written decades after Jesus lived. Paul himself says he never met Jesus (except by revelation).

There are very few historical figures of that period (especially ones of such little contemporary importance) that we have a lot of really-contemporary written accounts of. By comparison, we have no contemporary accounts of Socrates, a much more prominent figure, in a much more literate subculture. But yes, agreeing with you again (hello from the other thread!) from the other end - the authentic bits tell us next to…

But this got into a discussion about Jesus' historicity, not his character.

Re: Tomb venerated as burial place of Christ exposed for first time in centuries

#65

Post by imaginenore »

tjic wrote: post #30
imaginenore wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's very little of the evidence he existed at all. No contemporary historian mentions him.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_on_Jesus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus#Events_ge...

So just like I said. No contemporary historian mentioned him.

The rest is just writings by the followers of said religion. That's not evidence, that is hearsay by definition.

Re: Tomb venerated as burial place of Christ exposed for first time in centuries

#66

Post by rurban »

They should have really mentioned the real most likely burial place of the historical Jesus, which was found some decades ago by the archeaologist James Tabor, the Talpiot Tomb. The same guy also found the tomb of Jesus' family before. This tomb was opened in 2005 for some short time, but there's a new jewish apartment building on top of it, so they rather go with the Church of Holy Sepulcher fairy tale.

Not many scientists but many Christians believe that Jesus actually lay in this Church of Holy Sepulcher for 3 days.

Re: Tomb venerated as burial place of Christ exposed for first time in centuries

#67

Post by wyclif »

rolal wrote: post #45

A lot of the National Geographic societys work these days seems to have a strong appeal to religous people. They are owned by the FOX corporation and I wonder if this religious market is something that FOX is pushing them to focus on.

One story about archaeology, including the science thereof, in an ancient church isn't going to be a deal-breaker even for people who are fair-minded atheists.
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