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Tomb venerated as burial place of Christ exposed for first time in centuries

news.nationalgeographic.com

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Re: Tomb venerated as burial place of Christ exposed for first time in centuries

#31

Post by ohthehugemanate »

I always find stories like this fascinating. We're talking about a place where a mythical event was supposed to occur. It's like analyzing the place where Promethius first brought fire, or the spot where Osiris was resurrected. Maybe interesting for anthropology, but by no means the 'hard science' implied by the tone and presentation of the article.

Of course they're OUR myths, so it's important that we describe them with serious sounding words, and pretend that they're a valid spur for hard scientific research.

There isn't any evidence, outside of mythology, that this place or slab of marble has anything special to reveal about our universe. Just because you're looking through a scientific tool, does not change the fact that what you're looking at is mythology. You're just looking at a communion wafer through a microscope.

Still, it's fascinating to me that we present it in the same tone and context that we present LHC results.

Re: Tomb venerated as burial place of Christ exposed for first time in centuries

#32

Post by TeMPOraL »

ohthehugemanate wrote: post #31

I always find stories like this fascinating. We're talking about a place where a mythical event was supposed to occur. It's like analyzing the place where Promethius first brought fire, or the spot where Osiris was resurrected. Maybe interesting for anthropology, but by no means the 'hard science' implied by the tone and presentation of the article. Of course they're OUR myths, so it's important that we describe them…

> You're just looking at a communion wafer through a microscope.

Well, I hope people are actually doing that. I think people believing in some phenomenon should aways encourage scientific inquiry into it.

Re: Tomb venerated as burial place of Christ exposed for first time in centuries

#33

Post by salimmadjd »

Article is misleading. "Restorers working in the Church of the Holy Sepulchre in Israel uncover stone slab venerated as the resting place of Jesus Christ"

But it looks like the church is actually in the Palestinian lands [1]. Is there political motivation here?

[1] https://www.google.com/maps/@31.7724981,35.2362521,15z

Re: Tomb venerated as burial place of Christ exposed for first time in centuries

#35

Post by Hondor »

alsetmusic wrote: post #20
virtualwhys wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spent the winter in Israel a couple of years ago. The old city in Jerusalem is awe inspiring. As for the Holy Sepulchre, as a non-Christian I found it pretty surreal. Clearly for the faithful it's a big deal, saw people outright crying coming out of the Sepulchre. The church itself is beautiful, powerful artwork from all of the sects (Ethiopian included). Particularly the fresco at the entrance, Christ being laid to…

> saw people outright crying coming out of the Sepulchre This sort of reaction is deeply troubling to me because I see it as evidence of the overwhelming grip that religions have on (some of) their followers. It reminds me of videos of teenagers crying at the sight of Michael Jackson or the Beatles at live performances. It is unnecessary. My mother, for example, is unable to laugh at even the most trivial of jokes ab…

Not just religion. People cried when Princess Diana died. They cried on the anniversary of 9/11. And on 9/11 itself. People develop personal feelings towards popular people/events/concepts. That's just how we are, automatically forming emotional relationships, even when they're one-directional like in all these cases.

Re: Tomb venerated as burial place of Christ exposed for first time in centuries

#36

Post by Illniyar »

salimmadjd wrote: post #33

Article is misleading. "Restorers working in the Church of the Holy Sepulchre in Israel uncover stone slab venerated as the resting place of Jesus Christ" But it looks like the church is actually in the Palestinian lands [1]. Is there political motivation here? [1] https://www.google.com/maps/@31.7724981,35.2362521,15z

The old city is technically part of the area taken in the 67 war, which is the areas which are usually talked about when refereing to palastine.

But unlike the west bank, it was formally annexed by israel, it contains jewish holy sites such as the west wall, it is not currently part of the PA and I doubt anyone is seriously expecting it to be part of a future palastinian state (in a two state solution at least).

Re: Tomb venerated as burial place of Christ exposed for first time in centuries

#37

Post by danieltillett »

tjic wrote: post #30
imaginenore wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's very little of the evidence he existed at all. No contemporary historian mentions him.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_on_Jesus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus#Events_ge...

Josephus was not contemporary of Jesus. There is also the slight problem that the passages about Jesus in Josephus look to be later Christian interpolations [1].

1. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_on_Jesus

Re: Tomb venerated as burial place of Christ exposed for first time in centuries

#38

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

salimmadjd wrote: post #33

Article is misleading. "Restorers working in the Church of the Holy Sepulchre in Israel uncover stone slab venerated as the resting place of Jesus Christ" But it looks like the church is actually in the Palestinian lands [1]. Is there political motivation here? [1] https://www.google.com/maps/@31.7724981,35.2362521,15z

Yes, of course, Palestine doesn't officially exist as a state, according to, well, most of the 'west'[1].

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_recognition_of_t...

Re: Tomb venerated as burial place of Christ exposed for first time in centuries

#39

Post by Hondor »

british_india wrote: post #21

I call complete bullshit. From having watched shows like NCS, we know the amount of direct evidence it takes to establish something like who was buried somewhere. Like the shroud of Turin this is just another example of wishful thinking. They found some random tomb that has survived and announced that it was the tomb of this fictional character Christ. No chain of custody for evidence, just the wishful thinking of so…

The article consistently qualifies it like "According to Christian tradition". Only the title is inaccurate. It even mentions that they're interested in finding out "how it evolved as the focal point of veneration since ... A.D. 326." Jesus was buried 300 years after his death? It's pretty clear on the fact that Jesus's body didn't really get put there and that it's just a myth.

Re: Tomb venerated as burial place of Christ exposed for first time in centuries

#40

Post by azernik »

danieltillett wrote: post #37
tjic wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_on_Jesus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus#Events_ge...

Josephus was not contemporary of Jesus. There is also the slight problem that the passages about Jesus in Josephus look to be later Christian interpolations [1]. 1. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_on_Jesus

From that article:

"Modern scholarship has largely acknowledged the authenticity of the reference in Book 20, Chapter 9, 1 of the Antiquities to "the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James"[13] and considers it as having the highest level of authenticity among the references of Josephus to Christianity.[14][1][2][15][16][17]

Almost all modern scholars consider the reference in Book 18, Chapter 5, 2 of the Antiquities to the imprisonment and death of John the Baptist also to be authentic and not a Christian interpolation.[18][19][20]"

Among historians and biblical scholars, there's very little question that a person called Jesus from the Galilee was executed by the Romans for treason of some sort or other. Aside from name, place of origin, and death, however, everything else is very hazy.

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