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Microsoft Surface Studio

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Re: Microsoft Surface Studio

#511

Post by prawn »

swang wrote: post #88
WayneBro wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think a lot of people care about PC/phone integration? I don't see it outside of "contacts and email" which is already fully integrated everywhere thanks to the cloud. People don't buy Macs because they work well with an iPhone as far as I can tell. They buy Macs for all sorts of other reasons, but that doesn't seem to be one of them. Every corporate office in the world is running Windows. I'm pretty sure peop…

I just installed macOS Sierra and have up-to-date iOS 10.1. I still cannot get handoff working. From reading the reports this is not just me. At least Chrome still syncs.

Similar experience here. I use iPhone, MBP and iPad. Originally thought that having everything under one umbrella would be a huge help, but the reality is the syncing is such a pain that I never do it. Took me many, many months to even get AirDrop working between my own devices. iTunes is very frustrating to use in managing iOS devices.

Re: Microsoft Surface Studio

#512

Post by mmel »

ewzimm wrote: post #418
usaphp wrote: post #412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, that's why Microsoft had to sell this monitor on its own, without that PC attached. Also I did not see any mention of pressure sensitivity on that Studio panel, if it does not have it - it's a major point to still choose Wacom.

The Wacom has the pressure level advantage: 2048 vs 1024 levels on the Surface. But with well-calibrated software, it should be enough. I'm not sure if people can discern 2048 levels of pressure, and I'm sure this device was tested on a lot of artists. Can't comment from experience but I would think the delay would be a bigger issue than levels (MS say they optimized for delay.)

That is a number beyond meaning for feedback to humans, like arguing for a 3000dpi screen vs a 6000dpi screen, they're both far beyond human levels of perception. From my experience of trying to eek out every variation in pressure with a wacom, 32 levels is enough. I'm not able to create 64 levels of varing pressure strokes, let alone 1024.

Re: Microsoft Surface Studio

#513

Post by cthalupa »

blahblah12 wrote: post #440
ergo14 wrote: post #428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "engineering that went into a product"? I have no idea what do you mean - I've been assembling my own workstation for last 20 years now thank you there is no magic involved in building a nice system. And I don't enjoy glow lights in my case. If you think people will buy 4k$ system just for looks you have to be kidding me.

The form and function aren't replicable. When you work on a cintiq, the cintiq is on your table and you often have to keep looking up and down at the screen on your monitor. It's not the optimal way to work. The engineering is in the hinge and the form factor. You're not the target market if you want a beastly computer that can run a bunch of games. It's the same people who use a cintiq and an iMac that they're targe…

>The form and function aren't replicable. When you work on a cintiq, the cintiq is on your table and you often have to keep looking up and down at the screen on your monitor. It's not the optimal way to work

I'm kind of confused here. You specifically don't have to look at your (other) monitor when using the cintiq, because the cintiq is also a monitor.

Re: Microsoft Surface Studio

#514

Post by pritambaral »

Eridrus wrote: post #384
TheRealDunkirk wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the Linux subsystem for Windows is really appealing In theory. To anyone who feels that way, please try it out for yourself before making a leap. I thought it would let me develop Ruby on Rails under Windows like I could do on Linux or macOS. I discovered a whole bunch of unimplemented features that prevented this. After a couple of months of commenting on bug reports and watching and trying, I gave up. I'll check…

I'm a bit of a WSL fanboy, but this is the right advice if you're not a windows user normally. When it works, it's great, but some things just don't work and you're stuck. I've found the WSL devs to be fairly responsive, but not to everything. However, I've found open source projects to be pretty responsive to bug reports of their projects running on WSL; it's far easier for them to support that than support a native…

For the good of the world, I hope no one except Windows has to deal with WSL specific code. When programs start to have to include WSL specific code, the 'extend' part of EEE has begun. While it would be foolish to believe a few programs here and there including support for WSL means doom, it is certainly not the right direction.

Re: Microsoft Surface Studio

#515

Post by pritambaral »

0xFFC wrote: post #331
TheRealDunkirk wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the Linux subsystem for Windows is really appealing In theory. To anyone who feels that way, please try it out for yourself before making a leap. I thought it would let me develop Ruby on Rails under Windows like I could do on Linux or macOS. I discovered a whole bunch of unimplemented features that prevented this. After a couple of months of commenting on bug reports and watching and trying, I gave up. I'll check…

what you are saying may be true for now, but Microsoft is really trying to achieve 100% userspace compatibility, ( they set the line clear it is about user space programs ). I couldn't cross compile simple toy kernel (xv6) in OS X (because I needed to have i386-elf-gcc, which need to compile whole binutils , which really cumbersome, and brew doesn't support it -as far as I looked into it ) but in BashOnWindows , it j…

> Microsoft is really trying to achieve 100% userspace compatibility

> After this project matures enough, rest assured, it will be equivalent of using linux workstation

Didn't Microsoft say WSL wouldn't support graphical apps? That's a big portion of userspace; and without that, it simply can't be a linux workstation

Re: Microsoft Surface Studio

#516

Post by kartickv »

smrtinsert wrote: post #342
gthtjtkt wrote: post #132

$2,999 and the best GPU option is a last-gen mobile card? The default 965M is a crappy budget card (half the performance of the 980M), and if you want the 980M you have to pick the $4,199 configuration. And hybrid drives!? This thing starts at $2,199 and you can't even get a full SSD? I know 2D designers probably won't mind the GPU, but they could definitely benefit from a true SSD. Hell, the recently announced Razer…

Have you used a hybrid? They work pretty well. Unless you're just churning through file after file you'll be fine. As for the rest of it, no designer cares about previous gen stuff - if they didn't they wouldn't have gone to macs in the first place.

Hybrid drives don't always work well. The one in my iMac did, until I reinstalled macOS and then restored from a Time Machine backup, and now I get hard disc speeds, with a second or two delay to (say) open a small file, rather than instantly as with an SSD, as was the case before. It's been a week or two, and I don't know why Fusion Drive didn't optimise the data placement to move frequently used files to the SSD.

Re: Microsoft Surface Studio

#517

Post by thirdsun »

pjmlp wrote: post #100

Love it. It even has a version of their ergonomic keyboards, something that I cannot really understand with Apple, how can one even manage to program in such flat keyboards. Apple, one of the first companies to introduce ergonomic keyboards to the world.

Even worse is that horrible Magic Mouse - it's an ergonomic nightmare. Of course there a good alternatives from other brands but none seems to feature a good touch surface. I hate scrolling in steps like it's common with non-Apple mice. So, it's either good ergonomics or touch scrolling in any direction.

Re: Microsoft Surface Studio

#518

Post by enraged_camel »

ramenmeal wrote: post #305
ChuckMcM wrote: post #234

That looks pretty awesome, and it makes the iMac seem even more tired which I assume was intended. It is startling to have a story about IBM extolling the virtues of Macbooks for business and Microsoft launching a platform targeting designers, it really is amazing. But setting all of that aside for a moment.... The screen. Clearly that is the thing which makes this announcement. For me, the 3:2 aspect ratio is so mor…

I'm glad someone brought up the aspect ratio. That display looks so much more productive than 16:9.

As a side note, I've actually never understood why the industry converged on 16:9. It's pretty much only good for watching movies. I really miss 4:3.

Re: Microsoft Surface Studio

#519

Post by chokolad »

usaphp wrote: post #401
Ant5do wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So (449) dollar graphics card, the 1070 + (200) dollar cpu + Case (100) + memory (150) + psupply (70) + mobo (150) + hdd/ssd (150) + Wacom cintiq with Digitizer which is what 2500? + an sRGB monitor at 4k 800? = 4-5000, with a shitty box and shitty experience and you get none of the engineering that went into the product. Plz continue dreaming up dev boxes that only devs could love. Feel free to throw in some glowing…

Wacom Cintiq 27QHD 27": $2300 [1] Core i7 PC with Gtx 1080: ~$1750 [2] = $4050 for a much more powerful machine and $150 cheaper + upgradable [1] - https://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=1113... [2] - https://pcpartpicker.com/b/f2qkcf

> Wacom Cintiq 27QHD 27": $2300 [1]

This is non touch version. Pen + Touch is $2800 which is a better comparison. That Cintiq is 2560x1440 compared to 4500x3000 in Surface Studio.

and here is what someone who actually used both thinks about it:

"Tycho asked me to compare it to my Cintiq, and I told him that drawing on the Cintiq now felt like drawing on a piece of dirty plexiglass hovering over a CRT monitor from 1997"

https://www.penny-arcade.com/news/post/2016/10/26/the-surfac...

Re: Microsoft Surface Studio

#520

Post by KayL »

enraged_camel wrote: post #518
ramenmeal wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm glad someone brought up the aspect ratio. That display looks so much more productive than 16:9.

As a side note, I've actually never understood why the industry converged on 16:9. It's pretty much only good for watching movies. I really miss 4:3.

4:3 only useful for single-task, one app per screen. Most of my tasks opening 2 apps side-by-side. Wider would be better. 16:10 is the best.
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