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Instapainting – From $4k in debt to $32k/mo in passive revenue with no employees

indiehackers.com

71–80 of 277 posts

Re: Instapainting – From $4k in debt to $32k/mo in passive revenue with no employees

#71

Do you think people know they are paying for cheap Chinese labor when they purchase? If not, do you think they would care? When I read something like,"100% free-hand painted onto a canvas by a master artist," my impression isn't, "we outsource the painting to cheap Chinese labor." My impression is clearly wrong. I suspect others have this impression though. I think the concept is cool, but I'm not sure people would b…

If what you're asking is true - that desperate Chinese painters are being exploited to hand paint pictures of happy memories for wealthy foreigners, this is quite dystopian.

But I'm not sure that's a fair representation

Re: Instapainting – From $4k in debt to $32k/mo in passive revenue with no employees

#72

Great business, congratulations! Could you elaborate on how your shipping pipeline works from China to US/worldwide? Also if there were any problems shipping works of art, e.g. if I upload a picture of Starry Night, an artist paints that and it is shipped to me, would that cause a problem at the border?

I'm interested in this as well. I'm not wholly familiar with the shipping process, but does the business rely on taking advantage of any shipping cost discrepancies?

Re: Instapainting – From $4k in debt to $32k/mo in passive revenue with no employees

#73

Do you think people know they are paying for cheap Chinese labor when they purchase? If not, do you think they would care? When I read something like,"100% free-hand painted onto a canvas by a master artist," my impression isn't, "we outsource the painting to cheap Chinese labor." My impression is clearly wrong. I suspect others have this impression though. I think the concept is cool, but I'm not sure people would b…

This is crazy. The GDP per capita in China is totally different than the US and Europe. You're accusing Chen of exploiting these people, but it's more plausible he's providing them with opportunities they're grateful for.

The idea that he's running a virtual sweatshop has more to do with your own biases and preconceived notions than reality.

Re: Instapainting – From $4k in debt to $32k/mo in passive revenue with no employees

#74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you learn the business part of what you are doing? I can and do program fancy websites quickly, but I fail to see how I could monetize it. I mean about things that scale well, are kind of low-work and mostly an experiment. So, how do you pick which experiments to try? Do you have like many ideas constantly like that? Do you try few of them until one sticks? How do you know you will be able to pull it off later…

I learned everything I know how to do through practice and execution. Yes I've had many ideas. Many terrible, most inconsequential. You'll of course only read about the 1 or 2 successful ones on HN ;). After trying hundreds of ideas, you get lazy and get faster at pushing out ideas. Then just keep at the ones that stick.

I see, so it's basically the same as releasing Open Source software only that you need a plausible selling thing, possibly with a physical product. I'll start trying to sell some of them, thanks (:

Re: Instapainting – From $4k in debt to $32k/mo in passive revenue with no employees

#75

Do you think people know they are paying for cheap Chinese labor when they purchase? If not, do you think they would care? When I read something like,"100% free-hand painted onto a canvas by a master artist," my impression isn't, "we outsource the painting to cheap Chinese labor." My impression is clearly wrong. I suspect others have this impression though. I think the concept is cool, but I'm not sure people would b…

>Do you think people know they are paying for cheap Chinese labor when they purchase? If not, do you think they would care?

Doesn't matter. This service is for the bourgeoisie, today's young professionals who want to emulate the painted family portraits they have seen in rich homes. The fact that it comes from a "startup" probably adds to the coolness. These customers wouldn't know how to find a local portrait artist if they wanted to, nor would they be able to afford it.

Re: Instapainting – From $4k in debt to $32k/mo in passive revenue with no employees

#76

I can answer any questions, whether about how to get a great Christmas present, or questions about the article!

I'm interested in your thoughts on how you came about the idea. I don't want to be disparaging but do you consider it "lucky" that you had a friend point you towards selling art reproductions online? Were you already thinking of similar ideas? There's that gulf between ideas and execution, and you clearly executed well. Given that you had previous ideas that you weren't able to successfully execute on (relative to In…

The short answer is I tested hundreds of ideas. At that point, you could tell I was cutting all the bullshit. The original Instapainting.com page was just a single page with some pictures and a Stripe Checkout form after all.

Re: Instapainting – From $4k in debt to $32k/mo in passive revenue with no employees

#77

Do you think people know they are paying for cheap Chinese labor when they purchase? If not, do you think they would care? When I read something like,"100% free-hand painted onto a canvas by a master artist," my impression isn't, "we outsource the painting to cheap Chinese labor." My impression is clearly wrong. I suspect others have this impression though. I think the concept is cool, but I'm not sure people would b…

He's creating work for Chinese workers. Who are we to say what kind of pay the Chinese "should" be requesting? It's rather elitist of us to be telling them they are being taken advantage of. This is a job they've sought out and want to keep! It's the best option available to them.

Re: Instapainting – From $4k in debt to $32k/mo in passive revenue with no employees

#78
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He literally listed SEO as the most important part of the business. Which means he seized control of a location(Google ranking) and then sold it back to those who could not compete with his Google rank. No sure where "Everybody wins" in that situation.

Wait a second, so how do you imagine it working? Millions of artists each with their own individual pages connected to Stripe? Out of these, some will still be top 10, the rest will be behind. Every artist who uses his platform wins since thats what connects them to consumers and work orders.

The connected economy does have aspects that can be concerning:

* Many see bartering as a grey business. Profiting from a disparity in pricing between buyers and sellers is always a touchy subject. The usual justification is the service of connecting sellers and buyers. One can honestly wonders if buyers and sellers really would not have found each other otherwise.

* How much is the match-making worth. One person does the actual work, one is doing the referal. How much is referal worth? 1%, 5%, 20%, 50%? Most people value referral pretty low, right or not.

* Driving prices down. By making markets more efficient, it creates a race to the bottom. It's almost inevitable. What starts as a nice service connecting sellers to buyers becomes a force that impoverishes the workers. The wal-martisation of the work-force only profits the few. It's unfortunate that to collectively save pennies on disparate items, we transform once-confortable workers to lower and lower standard of living. The author admits this on HN when he comments that artists asks for higher prices on Etsy than they get on his site.

* The automation makes all this less palatable. Now the profit seems to be un-earned. What is the ethic of making X00k$ per years for what is admitted as requiring little actual labor? This is even more explicit when he claims that SEO is the driving factor. How does SEO prvides a service to the artists? It doesn't. It only profits instapainting. So most of his work is now spent on labor that is solely profits him.

* SEO is itself a touchy subject.

* How does writing a game that is a clone of a ripoff (2048 being a ripoff of threes) helps artists?

The interesting thing is that all of these are white sins. The author, the provider of the service is not doing it out of malice and is providing, at least initially, a great service to some the workers who had trouble acquiring buyers. But as the service grows, becomes more efficient and dominant, the adverse effect of this very efficency drives the quality of life of the workers down. The more success instapainting gets, the more artist are tied to it, the more the closed competition drives prices down. The theory is that it leads to an equilibrium, and economically it does, but nothing, nothing prevents that equilibrium from being low. Economic efficiency drives quality of life right out.

Re: Instapainting – From $4k in debt to $32k/mo in passive revenue with no employees

#79
post #62

> micro-services, which is crucial in allowing me (the > only developer) to migrate the site to new technologies. I know it's 5 years old, but I still don't see why it's been so crucial to have kept migrating to "new technologies"?

It lets me upgrade the application piecewise. For example I have pages that are just PHP/HTML, and some that are rendered with Node/React, and the site works seamlessly together (seamless sessions and everything).

Re: Instapainting – From $4k in debt to $32k/mo in passive revenue with no employees

#80

Great business, congratulations! Could you elaborate on how your shipping pipeline works from China to US/worldwide? Also if there were any problems shipping works of art, e.g. if I upload a picture of Starry Night, an artist paints that and it is shipped to me, would that cause a problem at the border?

In the early days, we used a startup called BoxC (now defunct I think) and took a more hands-on approach to shipping. They would drop off at or ship their their completed products to BoxC shipping locations which then handles fulfillment.

The site actually functions as a marketplace now, and the independent sellers handle their own shipping methods.

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