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Sex, honour, shame and blackmail in an online world

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Re: Sex, honour, shame and blackmail in an online world

#51

Post by legodt »

exstudent2 wrote: post #48
legodt wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Parent post here. And, you know what? You're very right about a lot of things. You might be really interested in hearing Bell Hooks speak (she has a lot of awesome talks up on YouTube). She talks a great deal about how feminism is for everyone and the patriarchal structures we live under harm both men and women greatly. Men being killed in the street are not being killed for being men, unlike women who are killed for…

We probably agree on many things but I do fundamentally disagree with the concept of a "patriarchy" (in the west). There's no need to gender what is essentially a synonym for institutionalized power. A lot of that power favors women (c.f. our educational system).

Okay, after that comment, I don't think I agree with you on anything. Educators are not in positions of power and we have not advanced past a society where gender can be separated from the spaces we inhabit. This weird victim complex of denying feminism is getting way too crazy

Re: Sex, honour, shame and blackmail in an online world

#52

Post by legodt »

Kenji wrote: post #45
legodt wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rape culture isn't about rapes. It's about a pervasive culture of misogyny that constantly demeans, shames, and objectifies women. Please go out and become educated on the subject rather than getting all of your information on this complex, multifaceted subject matter.

I'd love to be educated about this topic. I am always eager to learn new things and broaden my horizons. I don't shy away from complex, multifaceted subject matters. It's just that, to learn, I need facts. I need something tangible and you fail to give me that.

https://youtu.be/KLMVqnyTo_0

Get cracking. There are literally decades of social discourse you are behind on.

Re: Sex, honour, shame and blackmail in an online world

#53

Post by legodt »

lixquid wrote: post #49
legodt wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rape culture is not measured quantitatively by rapes reported/estimated. Please either go back to your men's rights hideyhole or actively get off the internet and start speaking to women active in the space of feminism to educate yourself on the subject. I will not be responding to you further

It seems detrimental to the cause to simply say "You are wrong, your evidence is wrong, and I'm not going to tell you why.", let alone the unnecessary insults.

I am not going to spend the paragraphs of effort to define my terms to somebody who has clearly gone through their life without bothering to even try to understand feminism. They have to go out and educate themselves at this point.

Re: Sex, honour, shame and blackmail in an online world

#54

Post by legodt »

throwaway1892 wrote: post #37
legodt wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hahahahahahaha. No. Women in the West do not have it better than men by a long shot. We have a presidential candidate threatenjng to sue to silence all accusers of sexual assault towards him. We have trans women of color being killed daily in the streets with no repercussions. And we have white dudes on the internet claiming conscription is just as bad as living under a society dominated by rape culture. Get out of y…

" being killed daily in the streets " Do you have a source for that?

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://...

Re: Sex, honour, shame and blackmail in an online world

#55

Post by GFK_of_xmaspast »

legodt wrote: post #51
exstudent2 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We probably agree on many things but I do fundamentally disagree with the concept of a "patriarchy" (in the west). There's no need to gender what is essentially a synonym for institutionalized power. A lot of that power favors women (c.f. our educational system).

Okay, after that comment, I don't think I agree with you on anything. Educators are not in positions of power and we have not advanced past a society where gender can be separated from the spaces we inhabit. This weird victim complex of denying feminism is getting way too crazy

Educators are only in a position of power in the eyes of a child.

Re: Sex, honour, shame and blackmail in an online world

#56

Post by ConfuciusSay02 »

digi_owl wrote: post #19
dogma1138 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is sadly not uncommon, it just was a fairly famous case because she had a lot of followers in the west. Honor killings are sadly the norm in many parts of the world, and are not even that rare anymore in the west at least as far as Europe goes.

I don't think they ever was rare in the west, they just took on a different character. Anyone recall hearing on the news about a "family tragedy" where a family was found dead, apparently at the hands of the father killing his wife and children? While i am unsure if there is any real research done on those i suspect that said father has run into bad news of some kind, felt he can no longer perform his role as the man…

What you describe are not honor killings.

In North America, statistically speaking, the mother is more likely to kill the children than the father.

Re: Sex, honour, shame and blackmail in an online world

#57

Post by lixquid »

legodt wrote: post #53
lixquid wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems detrimental to the cause to simply say "You are wrong, your evidence is wrong, and I'm not going to tell you why.", let alone the unnecessary insults.

I am not going to spend the paragraphs of effort to define my terms to somebody who has clearly gone through their life without bothering to even try to understand feminism. They have to go out and educate themselves at this point.

Why? The onus isn't on a person who has given you the evidence to prove you wrong to invalidate their own evidence.

You don't have to "spend the paragraphs of effort", just provide something which shows their evidence, which they base their stance on, is incorrect.

Re: Sex, honour, shame and blackmail in an online world

#58

Post by exstudent2 »

legodt wrote: post #51
exstudent2 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We probably agree on many things but I do fundamentally disagree with the concept of a "patriarchy" (in the west). There's no need to gender what is essentially a synonym for institutionalized power. A lot of that power favors women (c.f. our educational system).

Okay, after that comment, I don't think I agree with you on anything. Educators are not in positions of power and we have not advanced past a society where gender can be separated from the spaces we inhabit. This weird victim complex of denying feminism is getting way too crazy

> Educators are not in positions of power

Well we definitely don't agree on that. Growing up I had no choice whether I wanted to attend school or not. It was illegal for me not to go. If that's not power, I don't know what is.

Also, if you really want to help get your point across you should look at your own interactions (which are pretty typical of feminists tbh). You say questioning your opinions is "crazy", you tell a sibling comment to crawl back into their "men's rights hidey hole". That's not the level of discourse we should be having yet it's modus operandi for western feminism.

Re: Sex, honour, shame and blackmail in an online world

#59

Post by throwaway1892 »

legodt wrote: post #54
throwaway1892 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" being killed daily in the streets " Do you have a source for that?

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://...

From the front page of the site you linked (avp.org) :

  "22nd reported killing of a transgender/gender non-conforming person NCAVP has responded to in 2016"
So it's not daily, but there are multiple instances of it.

Edit: Also, I would not consider avp.org as a neutral sources on this matter considering their agenda.

Re: Sex, honour, shame and blackmail in an online world

#60

Post by dogma1138 »

Kenji wrote: post #50
dogma1138 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>That is weird because a few years ago I had a friend from Norway and he was forced to serve. There were ways out - like the mental health route, but that left you with rather unpleasant entries in databases you'd rather not be in. I have family and friends in Norway there are tons of easy way outs, they don't even call the majority of people if you don't show up or refuse early they don't bother asking you twice. I…

That's funny how that works in Norway. In Switzerland, if you ignore all the letters of conscription you get fines and after some years, you will be visited by two very kind policemen who put you in prison. Hmm, that is interesting. What is the benefit of such a social year, as opposed to having the youngsters start either an apprenticeship, where they can learn a trade, or continue and finish their education, and th…

>What is the benefit of such a social year, as opposed to having the youngsters start either an apprenticeship, where they can learn a trade, or continue and finish their education, and then get into the workforce? If such social labour has to be done, it should be paid accordingly and people should not be forced to do it in my eyes.

Because I believe that each and every one of us is born with a debt to society and that promoting selflessness and community work is beneficial on moral and ethical grounds for the society as a whole. I don't see anything more wrong with doing a civil service which often you are paid for (not much but are paid for) than saying collecting taxes on your hard work, in fact I would go out and say that I would rather being "forced" to volunteer for a year or two in my youth than pay higher taxes.

I also believe that good order, structure and community outreach can help people find their place in society better and to learn more about themselves, society already forces you to do many things I don't see how the fact that you rushed out into the workforce or into a specific education path just to make money any less forced than volunteering at a school, hospital, fire department or anything like that.

In fact it can help society on many levels, there is nothing that prevents say a 3rd year CompSci student from teaching programming at a school 2-3 times a week, in fact having a 20 something role model who they can relate too is likely to have a very good positive effect on children and young adults.

Volunteering also tends to reshape your perception of society and in my opinion for the better, I was a volunteer EMT since I was 16 and I have done a military service, this is just my experience and my lesson learned.

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