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Sex, honour, shame and blackmail in an online world

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Re: Sex, honour, shame and blackmail in an online world

#31

Post by legodt »

skoczymroczny wrote: post #21
pjc50 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And people wonder why feminism is important. It's not just a non-western phenomenon. The church in Ireland operated a system of forced labour detention for women considered "immoral" known as the Magdalene Laundries: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magdalene_Laundries_in_Ireland . The last one closed in 1996. There was eventually a state apology and compensation, but astonishingly as far as I can tell nobody has even b…

> And people wonder why feminism is important. Feminism helps to gain fame by posting provocative selfies?

Feminism in this case removes the stigma of being sexual from women in a culture where being openly sexual will get you murdered by your own family. Don't be such a reductionist

Re: Sex, honour, shame and blackmail in an online world

#32

Post by [deleted] »

dogma1138 wrote: post #27
Kenji wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The church in Ireland operated a system of forced labour detention for women considered "immoral" known as the Magdalene Laundries And men have conscription in 2016. The problem is that feminism is loudest where it's least needed. I.e. in the western world, where women are arguably even better off than men in many cases. I want to see feminism in islamo-fascist countries, where it's needed, not in the free west.

>And men have conscription in 2016. The only 2 western countries that still have conscription which are Norway (non compulsory conscription but still an active one nonetheless) and Israel treat men and women equally in this regard. That said as far as conflict goes there are biological reasons to favor men on average they are considerably stronger and while it's not pleasant to hear they are not as important for the…

[deleted]

Re: Sex, honour, shame and blackmail in an online world

#33

Post by legodt »

Kenji wrote: post #28
legodt wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hahahahahahaha. No. Women in the West do not have it better than men by a long shot. We have a presidential candidate threatenjng to sue to silence all accusers of sexual assault towards him. We have trans women of color being killed daily in the streets with no repercussions. And we have white dudes on the internet claiming conscription is just as bad as living under a society dominated by rape culture. Get out of y…

Rape culture? In the west? Explain. Rape incidents have never been lower in America than in the last few years, as shown by fbi.gov and other governmental intitutes. And this despite many efforts of encouraging victims of rape to speak out. And despite the fact that falsely accusing someone of rape has no repercussions whatsoever.

Rape culture is not measured quantitatively by rapes reported/estimated. Please either go back to your men's rights hideyhole or actively get off the internet and start speaking to women active in the space of feminism to educate yourself on the subject. I will not be responding to you further

Re: Sex, honour, shame and blackmail in an online world

#34

Post by exstudent2 »

legodt wrote: post #23
Kenji wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The church in Ireland operated a system of forced labour detention for women considered "immoral" known as the Magdalene Laundries And men have conscription in 2016. The problem is that feminism is loudest where it's least needed. I.e. in the western world, where women are arguably even better off than men in many cases. I want to see feminism in islamo-fascist countries, where it's needed, not in the free west.

Hahahahahahaha. No. Women in the West do not have it better than men by a long shot. We have a presidential candidate threatenjng to sue to silence all accusers of sexual assault towards him. We have trans women of color being killed daily in the streets with no repercussions. And we have white dudes on the internet claiming conscription is just as bad as living under a society dominated by rape culture. Get out of y…

Not that it makes it ok but far more men than women are killed in the streets without repercussions.

Men are also way more represented in prison which I think has an undeniable rape culture.

That's not even touching on male underrepresentation in higher education...

Men and women both face unique challenges in the west. In many very real ways men are getting the short end of the stick. The problem a lot of people have with western feminism is that you can't even discuss such things or point out how the standard feminist narrative harms men.

Re: Sex, honour, shame and blackmail in an online world

#35

Post by dogma1138 »

Kenji wrote: post #30
dogma1138 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>And men have conscription in 2016. The only 2 western countries that still have conscription which are Norway (non compulsory conscription but still an active one nonetheless) and Israel treat men and women equally in this regard. That said as far as conflict goes there are biological reasons to favor men on average they are considerably stronger and while it's not pleasant to hear they are not as important for the…

The only 2 western countries that still have conscription which are Norway (non compulsory conscription) and Israel treat men and women equally in this regard. Get your facts straight. Norway has compulsory conscription. So does Switzerland. So does Turkey (well, after what's happened there in the last few years, you truly cannot consider it 'western' anymore, but it's a country that wants into the EU). Germany only…

Norway does not have a compulsory conscription they only elect to enlist those who are motivated to do so and you can object without any legal repercussions.

Out of the 60-70K eligible men and women less than 10,000 are conscripted each year out of their choice.

And yes you are right I forgot about the Swiss, but it seems that they are also going to be or have started conscripting women as of 2016.

It's also important to be mentioned that many countries that practice conscription also offer a "civil service" path including Switzerland which means you can be conscripted to the police, firefighters/EMT, and even into social work.

And TBH I'm actually a big supporter of "conscription" at least the Civil Service/Zivildienst type where young men and women are "forced" to give 1 or 2 years of their life to better society, it doesn't mean they are or should be sent to war, but I do find the idea of a compulsory paid community service somewhat appealing.

And no I don't count Turkey as a western country any more since it's political, judicial and educational systems have been gutted and there is virtually no more free press left in the country.

Re: Sex, honour, shame and blackmail in an online world

#36

Post by 67726e »

pjc50 wrote: post #26
digi_owl wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't help see a uptick in this activity after labels like anonymous got MSM attention. Being an amorphous blob that barely had the fawkes mask as a symbol allowed people to feel like they had the backing of a group when spewing their vitriol.

I don't think it requires that mask, people are happy to do it with anonymous twitter eggs, anime avatars, or (if they feel they have enough social support) presidential campaigns. There does seem to have been a rise since I first started on the internet, but I'm not sure when I'd date it to.

Part of me agrees with digi_owl, I think seeing reports of 4chan trolls and those "hackers known as anonymous" probably ended up mobilizing a lot of jackasses that probably would have never gotten into that "scene". Kinda like how the media has latched onto this "killer clown" bullshit after some kid claimed he saw one and now you're seeing reports of this shit all over the country.

However, if memory serves, the whole "anonymous" crap really came into it's own somewhat in lockstep with the rise of social media which itself has given a voice to a lot of people that otherwise would have just been isolated to a forum or shitty GeoCities website. So now you've got a bunch of eggs and anime avatars screaming about corrupt Hillary and fascist Trump and spewing vitriol at anything that dare cross their path.

Of course everyone is getting so damned politically polar in this time-frame, we've got major news networks half-acting like gossip blogs, and now every jackass with a cellphone has a(n anonymous) voice. It's really just a confluence of shit.

Re: Sex, honour, shame and blackmail in an online world

#37

Post by throwaway1892 »

legodt wrote: post #23
Kenji wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The church in Ireland operated a system of forced labour detention for women considered "immoral" known as the Magdalene Laundries And men have conscription in 2016. The problem is that feminism is loudest where it's least needed. I.e. in the western world, where women are arguably even better off than men in many cases. I want to see feminism in islamo-fascist countries, where it's needed, not in the free west.

Hahahahahahaha. No. Women in the West do not have it better than men by a long shot. We have a presidential candidate threatenjng to sue to silence all accusers of sexual assault towards him. We have trans women of color being killed daily in the streets with no repercussions. And we have white dudes on the internet claiming conscription is just as bad as living under a society dominated by rape culture. Get out of y…

" being killed daily in the streets "

Do you have a source for that?

Re: Sex, honour, shame and blackmail in an online world

#38

Post by Kenji »

legodt wrote: post #33
Kenji wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rape culture? In the west? Explain. Rape incidents have never been lower in America than in the last few years, as shown by fbi.gov and other governmental intitutes. And this despite many efforts of encouraging victims of rape to speak out. And despite the fact that falsely accusing someone of rape has no repercussions whatsoever.

Rape culture is not measured quantitatively by rapes reported/estimated. Please either go back to your men's rights hideyhole or actively get off the internet and start speaking to women active in the space of feminism to educate yourself on the subject. I will not be responding to you further

Evidence or gtfo. What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

I presented my evidence in the form of official FBI statistics.

Re: Sex, honour, shame and blackmail in an online world

#39

Post by EdiX »

pjc50 wrote: post #9
EdiX wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And people wonder why feminism is important. It's not just a non-western phenomenon. (...) The last one closed in 1996. That's 20 years ago.

And 9/11 was fifteen years ago! Doesn't time fly?

Yep, if 9/11 was the only example of islamic terrorism in the last twenty years I would definitely agree that worries about it are outdated.

Re: Sex, honour, shame and blackmail in an online world

#40

Post by ConfuciusSay02 »

pjc50 wrote: post #5
docdeek wrote: post #3

"More recently Qandeel Baloch, who came from a village in Pakistan's Punjab region, used social media to gain celebrity by posting provocative selfies online. Known as the Kim Kardashian of Pakistan, she challenged Pakistani social norms by embracing the sexualised culture of the internet - until she was strangled by her brother in July this year for bringing shame on the family.” That paragraph got dark real fast.

And people wonder why feminism is important. It's not just a non-western phenomenon. The church in Ireland operated a system of forced labour detention for women considered "immoral" known as the Magdalene Laundries: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magdalene_Laundries_in_Ireland . The last one closed in 1996. There was eventually a state apology and compensation, but astonishingly as far as I can tell nobody has even b…

> The line between people sending death threats on twitter and the person who strangled his sister for posting selfies is very thin.

Umm no, it's not very thin. There's a gargantuan difference between posting something on Twitter and murdering someone.

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