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All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

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Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#991

Post by lhopki01 »

aub3bhat wrote: post #914
lhopki01 wrote: post #721

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Efficiency of what though? Space? Roads take up way more space than tracks. Efficiency of cost? Roads are very expensive. Often more expensive per passenger mile than railroads. Efficiency of energy use? Moving a 2000kg electric car around for 1 person is never going to be efficient. Efficiency of through-put? Roads even with autonomous cars will never have the throughput of a train-line. Also I think you significant…

Hahaha are you joking? Roads are indispensable and essential for last mile connectivity. No matter if trains and subways become 10 times more popular they will always exist in addition to the road infrastructure. Thus autonomous electric cars are a huge boon, its just common sense.

I never said we'd get rid of roads. Parent was saying that we shouldn't build rail because of autonomous cars.

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#992

Post by lhopki01 »

drcross wrote: post #753
lhopki01 wrote: post #721

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Efficiency of what though? Space? Roads take up way more space than tracks. Efficiency of cost? Roads are very expensive. Often more expensive per passenger mile than railroads. Efficiency of energy use? Moving a 2000kg electric car around for 1 person is never going to be efficient. Efficiency of through-put? Roads even with autonomous cars will never have the throughput of a train-line. Also I think you significant…

Now that we have electric and self-driving cars you assumptions of what a car is have the ability to be drastically altered. >Space? Roads take up way more space than tracks. Highways can now be minimised to two tracks, the standard width of a vehicle, vibration reports can tell the councils where pothole repair is most needed. >Moving a 2000kg electric car around for 1 person is never going to be efficient. Car's ar…

A single lane of highway doesn't get more than 2000 cars per hour. Even self driving won't increase that much. If all cars have to wait for someone to get out of their cars since we're only on 1 lane then it'll get even worse.

Eletrics cars are 2000kg because a the battery weighs a lot.

Trains get smaller too when it's not rush hour. France regularly runs one carriage trains the size of a bus.

Mitigate and smooth flowing aren't the same thing. On way to work I see cars backed up for miles. Doesn't matter if they're self driving or not when cars move bumper to bumper already.

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#993

Post by vonklaus »

aerovistae wrote: post #617
hipshaker wrote: post #570

Isn't this hackernews?? So many "but what if this and that and this..." & "and yeah let's see if it can handle X & Y" This is the iPhone 1 of self-driving cars! That's akin to saying Apple should have waited to release their phone until iPhone 7 "because of this & that & this..." Don't we have to start somewhere ?? Aren't there supposed to be a big user base here who understands that it's an evolutionary process - we…

I laughed out loud when I googled "tsla" after watching the video and the top headline in the news section of the google results was "Analyst doubts the new move by Tesla Motors." Clicking on the article for humor's value, I continued to read: > However, Edmunds.com, Inc. analyst Jessica Caldwell questions the value of purchasing a self-driving car before regulations catch up. Caldwell said that, meanwhile, competito…

I look at Tesla as the exception to a lot of rules. I agree with you here-- launching hardware which not only is a value add to users but also Tesla data teams, is so far ahead that this seemed like a dumb comment.

That said, if some company had manufactured bluetooth hardware last year way in advance of the release and full spec, I would argue that it was a pretty bad move. Clearly this is not a perfect analogy, but it should illustrate that this can seem counter intuitive. Building in the cost of beta tech that doesnt fully work and is not legal is a huge gamble. I just wouldn't personally bet against tesla and for the reasons i outlined; it is likely the right call

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#994

Post by chinpokomon »

tigershark wrote: post #951
sbierwagen wrote: post #809

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we're continuing the iPhone metaphor from the GP, note that Apple is almost always late to a market segment. When the iPhone was released, Windows CE had owned the smartphone segment for years. The iPod was hardly the first hard drive mp3 player. Apple Watch wasn't the first smart watch. Etc etc etc. Apple makes good products, not innovative ones. It is not at all unthinkable that someone else will release a bette…

Clearly you never used a windows Mobile device if you can even think to compare the experience with those awful devices with a far, far superior experience. The iPhone is the first smartphone as we know them today, denying it is simply lying. Source: I owned Windows CE / windows mobile devices since as early as 2001 if I recall correctly.

The second generation iPhone was the first as you know them today. The first was a glorified iPod Touch with a cellular radio stack. In fact, aside from the better touch-friendly screen, the iPhone was a step backwards from Windows CE/Smartphone/Mobile devices because on those I could run applications.

Source: I owned Windows CE/Smartphone/Mobile devices starting with the Samsung i600 and was actively using a Treo 700w when the iPhone was released.

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#995

Post by benliong78 »

WalterSear wrote: post #860
falconed wrote: post #792

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the interesting point here is that the hardware is available on all Teslas. The functionality shown in the video could be available on everyone's Tesla by installing an update. What they showed may be similar to what's been demonstrated by other companies in the past, but the potential for broad availability is novel.

It's about gathering training data. Any benefits for the users is secondary to that.

Some would argue that Gathering training data is beneficial to users in the long term, and the more aggressive auto-manufacturers go about it the better the cars will be to us users.

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#996

Post by kybernetikos »

jwebb99 wrote: post #979
YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #957

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, I don't think it's HN being fond of Tesla. I think it's just that Tesla (rather, Elon Musk) is very good at grabbing headlines and people are sometimes not as well informed about the state-of-the-art as they wish they were. Same thing happens with other companies of course. Er, Apple, in particular. If you ask most people "what was the first smartphone?", they will probably say "the first iPhone"... even though t…

> They just never caught on in the same way as the iPhone did. It's marketing, innit. I don't think you can win against it. The iPhone is synonymous with smartphone technology because its debut was a quantum leap ahead of the competition at the time (Blackberry, Palm, etc.). Google was working on a phone that used a physical keyboard until they saw the iPhone announcement and then quickly modified Android to ape iPho…

As far as I know, there were two new things that came along with the iphone: multitouch capacitive screen and 3g data plans that were actually worth using because apple threw their weight behind negotiating with the carriers. A few generations later, the iphone app store was a huge achievement too. All of those were huge, but there are also a lot of other innovations associated with the iphone that were actually around years before.

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#997

Post by hatsunearu »

NegatioN wrote: post #555

So, both Nvidia and Tesla are working on self-driving cars based on the sensory data mainly from cameras mounted on the car, which are then run through X number of RNNs to generate models to operate on? While Google pursues their LIDAR-approach? What other players are operating in this space? And what's their approach?

Pretty sure NVIDIA is using LIDAR with sensor fusion..?

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#998

Post by WhiteOwlLion »

Seems like Tesla is moving forward with much regard for safety nor technical advancement. Disappointed Tesla could back up and park in one motion. It also went too far forward to back up. You don't need to that much room. How is it going to handle itself on Market St when it finds a spot but the bus behind it has to go around?

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#999

Post by andygates »

freehunter wrote: post #879
spectrum1234 wrote: post #719

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also couldn't save people's' lives...

Yes self driving cars could save lives, if they're working properly. That's literally what we're talking about. If they're working as good a humans, good. If they're working better, they're saving lives. If they turn into oncoming traffic like the Tesla did in the video, they can kill people. A first-gen iPhone couldn't save people, but a first gen auto-driving car can certainly kill a lot of people if the software i…

But critically, it's (probably) impossible to get past the "good as humans" point without a huge amount of learning data. That means either a lot of time or a lot of testers.

It's interesting that the new Tesla software will be shadowing while the meatbag is driving: not just reporting back driving data, but also simulating what it would do all the time. There's going to be a lot of situations where it would be wrong, all nicely laid out for the developers, ready to fix.

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#1000

Post by Animats »

irq11 wrote: post #345
MarkMc wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's probably enough for freeway driving under good conditions. It might rule out driving in fog or snow, but if the weather is OK then the sensor suite is probably enough for driving on any paved road. I think you are underestimating how quickly Tesla's AI software can improve. The AI will always be running and checking to see if the driver does anything unexpected. For example if you brake or swerve suddenly when…

"I think you're underestimating how quickly Tesla'a AI software can improve" Do you have any basis for that statement, other than that you like Elon Musk, and read an article about "big data" once? I have actual experience in this field. The parent is right: the sensors matter more than hypothetical gains from "big data". Because right now, sensors suck . There's a reason every serious player in this game is plopping…

Those are good points. Here's some backup.

Here's Mobileeye's CTO talking in detail about their technology.[1] They use a a deep neural network that recognizes cars. Just cars. Look at this point in the video.[2] There's a stationary obstacle on the left, and it doesn't recognize that. Maybe this is why Tesla, using Mobileye hardware, plowed into three different stationary vehicles at the left of a highway. They were all trucks (one was a street sweeper), and seen from the back while stationary, may not have matched the trained model of "car".

Mobileeye's algorithms are good at recognizing moving cars from most angles, and that's valuable for feeding into the model of "what's the other player doing". But it's not enough for the "where are all the obstacles" and "where is the road surface" questions. Those questions have objective answers, which can be answered with a LIDAR, and maybe millimeter radar if it has the angular resolution.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCMXXXmxG-I [2] https://youtu.be/GCMXXXmxG-I?t=1758

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