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Social Media’s Dial-Up Ancestor: The Bulletin Board System

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Re: Social Media’s Dial-Up Ancestor: The Bulletin Board System

#81
post #69

Oh man, I still remember having friends over to my house when I was a kid and waiting til midnight so we could dial up to the local list of BBSs to take our turns on the text games they had. I think Red Dragon and Usurper were the big ones that we played. It's funny that I was actually thinking about Usurper the other day because the best thing to be in that game was an Alchemist which struck me as funny because now…

what about Global Wars? :)

http://www.tradewars.com/default.html

In the late 80s I used to have whiteboards all over my bedroom with various graphical trade routes in my local tradewars game. From memory the solar systems were all numbers so you'd go 3-6-99-8 or whatever.

Around the same time a local set up a machine with UUCP email and usenet. The same people are on rec.pyrotechnics today as were on in 1989, probably because they're FBI honeypots not people.

Around the early 90s I would download Phrack magazine from its internet site when it was released using an email to FTP server where pre-mime days you'd run uudecode on the email it sent back to get your short file. You'd email it batch style a list of FTP commands and it would email you back whatever you wanted to download. Then I'd upload the new Phrack zine to all my local BBSes to get a better upload/download ratio. I distinctly remember ftpmail@sunsite.unc.edu. I'm not sure the concept of a zine or Phrack (or 2600) would make any sense to anyone under 40.

Re: Social Media’s Dial-Up Ancestor: The Bulletin Board System

#82
post #20

I was too young to use BBS when it started but the topic fascinates me, especially after having read Hackers and The Innovators. Not to hijack the topic, but has anyone watched the show Halt and Catch Fire (available on Netflix)? I'm curious how accurately that show captures the culture of that era. Would love any additional reading recommendations around BBS' emergence as well. Already bookmarked the documentary ser…

re: Halt and Catch Fire -- it's an enjoyable show, but the accuracy seems to get worse with each season. The latest season in particular had a lot of things that made me cringe.

I wish AMC had put the same effort into it as Mad Men, in terms of attempting to be an extremely accurate period piece. I suppose the viewership for HaCF didn't get large enough to warrant it, and/or the showrunners just aren't up to it?

Re: Social Media’s Dial-Up Ancestor: The Bulletin Board System

#83
post #20

I was too young to use BBS when it started but the topic fascinates me, especially after having read Hackers and The Innovators. Not to hijack the topic, but has anyone watched the show Halt and Catch Fire (available on Netflix)? I'm curious how accurately that show captures the culture of that era. Would love any additional reading recommendations around BBS' emergence as well. Already bookmarked the documentary ser…

re: Halt and Catch Fire -- it's an enjoyable show, but the accuracy seems to get worse with each season. The latest season in particular had a lot of things that made me cringe. I wish AMC had put the same effort into it as Mad Men, in terms of attempting to be an extremely accurate period piece. I suppose the viewership for HaCF didn't get large enough to warrant it, and/or the showrunners just aren't up to it?

Or, most likely, the concept of the show was different on that point, as on many others.

Re: Social Media’s Dial-Up Ancestor: The Bulletin Board System

#84
post #67
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd love to show my kids how mine worked - there's a few dial up BBSes out there still - but I don't have a landline and I've only heard bad things about attempting to use a modem over a VOIP service... and there's the little problem of plugging an old telephone into a PC to access that VOIP service in the first place.

there you go http://www.whence.com/minimodem/

Looks good, but I want to physically connect the landline phone as an audio device too... that solution seems elusive. I could probably assemble a circuit to do it, though I'm not sure I could design one.

I have this Linksys VOIP router that I used to use on my old landline to interface with an Asterisk server, but I don't think the firmware supports this use case.

Re: Social Media’s Dial-Up Ancestor: The Bulletin Board System

#85
post #6

I used to visit a BBS semi-regularly during middle school, I had always enjoyed the simplicity of the basic text interface. Not that there was much going on, this was around 2008, so everything was long-dead by then. Reddit (and HN) has its voting system and 4chan has the bump system, but there's something about newsgroups with the long-lived threads with email-length replies that really appeals to me. Will there eve…

Newsgroups were a bit different I always thought than BBSs, but were still much closer in feel to various message bases. The problem even from pretty early on was spam and moderation. When you did have any ad-hoc or defacto moderation, it was usually divisive and heavy handed in a way that didn't have the same vibe as a BBS. On a BBS, a sysop would disconnect you mid session if you were being an idiot. You'd be warne…

"On a BBS, a sysop would disconnect you mid session if you were being an idiot. You'd be warned, banned for some amount of time or forever."

Yes, a funny anecdote, obviously there was no central registry of names so sometimes there would be multiple BBS of the same cool name in the same LATA, so when I was about 12, operating on a tip from a schoolmate at 1200 baud I log into one of the several pirates cove bbs, or whatever the name was, and try to send the sysop a mail asking for private access to the files because I know XYZ from school and sysops cousin is XYZ (XYZ and I are still IT-type people 30 years later) and the sysop breaks into the session (which they could do in those days) and reads me the riot act about how he has no warez and he works real hard and spends a lot of money to make a BBS and what would decades later boil down to darn kids get off my lawn type lecture and never set foot here again and I'm deleting your brand new account and at 1200 baud it took awhile. And being a little kid I'm like "ok sorry about that" because what else am I supposed to say to mr angry wall of text? Then I go to school the next day and talk to my friend and "you idiot, call the pirates cove in suburb ABC not the one in suburb XYZ" or whatever. So that's what passed for a good time in the 80s. Sysops would sit there and spy on you, while you tried to work the social game to get access to the good stuff.

Several of the boards I was on with access to the special stuff were basically BBS embedded secretly inside a normal looking BBS so that made it fun. One of the special boards as a requirement to make it look good, required us to participate in the political debate forum if we wanted to keep access. Oh that board, thats just teens trying to debate federal tax policy. When actually it was full of software trading, hiding under dumb debates. On the modern internet of course instead of trading software we just skip right to the dumb debates, LOL.

Another "only 12 year old boy in the 80s could believe it" is back then we were pretty paranoid with people getting busted left and right and stories on TV so before XYZ gives me his tip he asks me between classes if I'm a fed and I told him no and I asked him if he was a fed and he said no, and that was it, we believed each other as if that proved anything (and neither of us were a fed, but I've known this kid since we went to kindergarten together and we're asking each other if we're a fed... well its just what you did in those paranoid days). I do not think modern stuff like GPG key signatures are quite as paranoid on a personal level as we used to be back in the old days.

Re: Social Media’s Dial-Up Ancestor: The Bulletin Board System

#86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

re: Halt and Catch Fire -- it's an enjoyable show, but the accuracy seems to get worse with each season. The latest season in particular had a lot of things that made me cringe. I wish AMC had put the same effort into it as Mad Men, in terms of attempting to be an extremely accurate period piece. I suppose the viewership for HaCF didn't get large enough to warrant it, and/or the showrunners just aren't up to it?

Or, most likely, the concept of the show was different on that point, as on many others.

That's fair, but when it first launched the network was putting a lot of marketing effort into portraying it that way. And I think in the first season that wasn't too far from the mark. So I'd argue more that the concept became different on that point over time, for better or worse.

Re: Social Media’s Dial-Up Ancestor: The Bulletin Board System

#87
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Banning could actually mean something. You were not really anonymous (at least on the local ones) since you can be identified by your phone number and maybe banned that way Hypothetical question: if we would see a new emergence of mobile based BBS's, using some novel protocol without identifiable phone numbers but with ability to assign unique IDs to users and solve those problems, could it take off today?

I am afraid I don't have any great answers other than taking some of the ideas that made BBSs great as a whole and combining them into something entirely new. There I have a few thoughts, but then we're not really talking about BBSs. The fact things were on a phone line helped in some ways (exclusivity, time, identifiability), but doing it all through a mobile phone or other telephony does not really capture that. Fo…

"No advertising. Advertising is at the root of ruining a lot"

I remember enormous controversy at the time about modem manufacturers who would sell you a high speed (for the time) modem for free or a substantial discount if you put a little advertisement for their modem on your board and it was NOT well received. I think this was around the era of dueling and completely incompatible 9600 baud modems. I skipped that horrible era and went right from 2400 to 14400 then rapidly to 28800.

Class based access levels were a thing in the BBS era. It seems hard to believe in 2016 web page world where there's maybe "have an account vs no account" or at most "guest/free/paid" but some BBSes had a zillion levels of participation and allowed time and ratio requirements. Some got a little eye roll-y over specific.

Active discouragement of lurking, is how I'd phrase it.

Re: Social Media’s Dial-Up Ancestor: The Bulletin Board System

#88
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Newsgroups were a bit different I always thought than BBSs, but were still much closer in feel to various message bases. The problem even from pretty early on was spam and moderation. When you did have any ad-hoc or defacto moderation, it was usually divisive and heavy handed in a way that didn't have the same vibe as a BBS. On a BBS, a sysop would disconnect you mid session if you were being an idiot. You'd be warne…

"On a BBS, a sysop would disconnect you mid session if you were being an idiot. You'd be warned, banned for some amount of time or forever." Yes, a funny anecdote, obviously there was no central registry of names so sometimes there would be multiple BBS of the same cool name in the same LATA, so when I was about 12, operating on a tip from a schoolmate at 1200 baud I log into one of the several pirates cove bbs, or w…

Thanks for the story, lots of good memories like that too. I used to always try to call boards named things like Thieves Guild, Pirates Cove, or some sort of 31337 sounding name in the hopes of discovering some new scene or underground board. The best boards were dedicated 100% and didn't even try to fake it, but did a lot of the stuff I listed below.

Regarding boards with fake or legit parts, I used to routinely page sysops on boards I thought were underground or had hidden parts. The classic ones later on were almost always based on PCBoard and later Ami/X, but highly customized. The early ones generally just ran on whatever the best software was at the time and boasted about the hardware. They'd have all sorts of legit content typically and even legit users, but so much of it was a joke. I used to call one board that was big with HAM radio people and early Internet adopters. The most nerdy discussions you can imagine. What they didn't know is that there was a second part of the board that had a huge ROM dump, Amiga, C64, and PC warez scene.

As far as sysops go, I will also admit to spying on my users as sysop and as a co-sysop on various boards. I sometimes would break people into chat and kick them off. There were also many plug-ins that initiated fake chats and logged the results. A particular one that I'll never forget on one board I was co-sysop on featured an ANSImation (animated Ansi) by JED of ACID with some troll I think flipping you the bird as it brought up chat. Sometimes we'd post the fake chats for other users for comedy purposes.

I was nice and would help people find files, talk about fun stuff, meet in person, but I was also a dictator and would boot anyone on short notice. There were often periods of paranoia from alleged "busts," most of which probably never happened though I know for sure some did. Lots of calling people NARCs and so on.

One of the funniest things I used to see people do was upload fake files. Early on it was random binary or generated text files. Later it was things like blank audio or the same pictures renamed and zip'd. They were just so desperate for upload credit and time that they'd do this insane stuff. Checking files was really a pain. Thankfully on my boards, we were snobs about content, like on the warez boards we'd think we were so cool having 0-30 day, then it was something like 0-14, then 0 day stuff. So stupid banning and deleting people for uploading something 2 months old. Same thing happened on various FTP dumps that started to displace BBSs for file purposes later on.

Anyway, BBSs and the relationship to various underground scenes was a funny thing. On the one hand, a lot of the communities could be very exclusive and created all sorts of protections, barriers, precautions, and more. On the other hand, they'd then make it super obvious what they were up to in so many ways. Classic examples include:

- Advertising your BBS on other not-so-secret boards

- Commissioning ANSI art from a group like ACID, ICE, etc. with the name in the ANSI and often the area code too. Not uncommon to see things like +1-212-YOU-WISH Sysop: Mr Man. Awesome, now I know the name and what area code to look for the number at least, if not people who run it.

- Logon screen with ANSI depicting group affiliations. THG Eastern HQ = Genesis Distro = Legion of Doom HQ. It was hilarious because even if you didn't have access, you instantly knew you called a pirate board, cracking board, art board, whatever.

- New User Application filled with terminology from whatever scene. Again, same as the previous item.

- New User Password. As if most BBSs without anything illegal would have this.

- Users with huge ratios listed. Hmm, not many files on this BBS and yet this guy uploaded 500 megs!

- Certain BBS Software. You could be pretty sure that someone running things like Ami/X were into warez, Oblivion, Iniquity, Eternity, etc. - art, and so on. The more customized with nice ANSI too, usually the more likely it was underground. Huge tip-off the board was legit if it ran something like WWIV, Wildcat!, Celerity, and a few others we all considered hugely lame. Renegade and other Telegard or Forum hacks always made you wonder on the other hand. The old stuff on Atari ST, C64 etc was harder since there was a huge deluge of stuff and not as many ones that were 100% preferred yet.

We thought we were pretty cool in those times, but wow I look back at some of it and cringe. Good times and I was lucky enough to be involved in most underground scenes, while still getting time to interact in the legit scenes too.

Re: Social Media’s Dial-Up Ancestor: The Bulletin Board System

#89
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am afraid I don't have any great answers other than taking some of the ideas that made BBSs great as a whole and combining them into something entirely new. There I have a few thoughts, but then we're not really talking about BBSs. The fact things were on a phone line helped in some ways (exclusivity, time, identifiability), but doing it all through a mobile phone or other telephony does not really capture that. Fo…

"No advertising. Advertising is at the root of ruining a lot" I remember enormous controversy at the time about modem manufacturers who would sell you a high speed (for the time) modem for free or a substantial discount if you put a little advertisement for their modem on your board and it was NOT well received. I think this was around the era of dueling and completely incompatible 9600 baud modems. I skipped that ho…

Agreed. A lot of BBSs both thrived and ruined themselves over having pay tiers. Sometimes it was pay for "premium" content which was usually warez, porn, etc. Then there was a period of charging for access to parts of the Internet (gateways), like email or usenet messages through your BBS.Other BBSs simply asked for donations and got quite a bit because people were passionate.

Ugh, modem incompatibility was an awful thing. The modem manufacturers often got greedy or out right lied about supporting standards correctly. It really was a case of needing to pay for quality. The worst period I remember was toward the end of the era with "Win modems" tied to windows. They'd pop these pieces of junk inside Dell, Packard Bell, eMachines, Compaq, and other consumer junk.

You're absolutely right about tiered access. I will say that torrent sites, especially private ones do have some levels of tiered access. As do some web forums in terms of moderation privileges. That's about the closest you get, but it's no where near as nuanced, draconian, or as powerful. The class-based access did have positive effects like you hint it such as discouraging lurking, creating exclusivity, encouraging uploads, discouraging bad actors. I kind of laughed at the web when years back they tried to do some version of that via game-ification and in most cases it ended badly excluding the obvious notables.

Re: Social Media’s Dial-Up Ancestor: The Bulletin Board System

#90
I definitely miss the local and human aspects of BBSing. I grew up in rural Ohio, and we had just a few (3 - 4 at any time) BBS that were local calls in the late 80's and early 90's. Knowing the local "cast of characters" was a lot of fun, and it was always exciting when somebody new popped-up on the scene. We had some get IRL get- togethers and a lot of behind-the-scenes drama.

I wrote some software for a friend's board that used an NTSC frame grabber and Soundblaster card he had attached. You could upload a sound file (WAV or VOC) and it would play over the PA downstairs in the gym he ran. After your sound played the machine recorded 5 seconds of audio from a mic in the gym and pulled a single black and white frame from the gym's surveillance camera. You'd get back a ZIP file with a single GIF and a VOC file in it. That was a ton of fun.

I really miss the old "hacker" boards, too, but that's arguably nostalgia for my youth more than anything. I'd still love to talk to somebody who frequented the old Bit Truth BBS (203). I very occasionally talk to friends who were on the old Unphamiliar Territory (602). The Internet helped change that "scene", but the it was already a pretty established tradition that most people would either go to college or get a "real job" and move on. Ahh... growing up...

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