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Social Media’s Dial-Up Ancestor: The Bulletin Board System

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Re: Social Media’s Dial-Up Ancestor: The Bulletin Board System

#21
post #6

I used to visit a BBS semi-regularly during middle school, I had always enjoyed the simplicity of the basic text interface. Not that there was much going on, this was around 2008, so everything was long-dead by then. Reddit (and HN) has its voting system and 4chan has the bump system, but there's something about newsgroups with the long-lived threads with email-length replies that really appeals to me. Will there eve…

Newsgroups were a bit different I always thought than BBSs, but were still much closer in feel to various message bases. The problem even from pretty early on was spam and moderation. When you did have any ad-hoc or defacto moderation, it was usually divisive and heavy handed in a way that didn't have the same vibe as a BBS.

On a BBS, a sysop would disconnect you mid session if you were being an idiot. You'd be warned, banned for some amount of time or forever. On newsgroups, it just got much more out of control with bad actors because the scale was so much larger and the authority was so much less in terms of credibility, fear, and activity.

In defense of Reddit and HN, it's just hard to scale things up with more people and deal with the related concerns of post visibility, spam, moderation, and more. I know you're not saying this, but sometimes people point that 4chan is more like BBS messages, but it's not true because most BBSs were heavily moderated, complete with co-sysop users who would log on just to do this or moderator users with escalated privileges. If anything, BBSs were the most moderated of all, it's just that some people didn't mind if you talked about certain things or used certain language because it's their BBS and they just did what they wanted.

Regarding email-length replies, I obviously love them. I generally don't agree with short = powerful in most cases except in code sometimes. Of course short replies can be focused and have a lot of value and I certainly appreciate the people that do that well. Unfortunately, short for many people means thought and leave or .

Finally, regarding text, I couldn't agree more. I sometimes wish all websites just gave me a command line as a second interface. I know I can use curl and APIs for a lot of similar stuff, but yeah, no, that is not the same as hitting "f" for files or even just simpler unix commands. Lobste.rs kind of did this as a joke if you want to check it out, but it's not quite right IMO but good for fun.

Re: Social Media’s Dial-Up Ancestor: The Bulletin Board System

#22
Back in the day there were BBSs running on just about any type of microcomputer, CP/M, Apple II/Mac, Atari 8bit/ST, Commodore VIC/64/128/Amiga, TRS-80, etc. Most overviews focus just on the IBM-PC stuff (or what the author used back in the day - like Jason Scott an Apple II user). The smaller micro BBS were their own vibrant little universes.

The Commodore 64 boards had a quite a few BBS systems from pretty spartan 6485-BBS, Compute's Gazzette BBS (yeah they even had a magazine type-in BBS: Dec'84 & Jan'85), up to more advanced ones like Color64/128, C-Net 64/128, and Image BBSs - the high end ones used either a bunch of 800k 3.5" drives or hard drive (comparatively expensive but was worth it for speed and storage), or RAM drives.

Near the peak of Commodore BBSs some publishers and SysOp worked up their own Commodore BBS networking schemes where BBSs could exchange emails and forum postings (like FIDONet, but specific to Commodore), there was even a couple multi-line Commodore BBSs, and a few got the different makes of BBSs cross communicating as well. Such things were a labor of love, as us SysOps footed the long distance bills to exchange messages on top of the cost of an extra line, hardware, etc. (the automated exchanges happened during lower cost calling hours, like 2am.)

Now a days there are still a few that either held on or have started new Commodore BBSs - with most BBSs now being accessible via telnet (though I hear there are a couple dial up ones out there).

Of course there was a bits of rivalry between computer models as well as BBS brands...

Any former SysOps/Callers out there?

Me: Joe Commodore SysOp of Silicon Realms BBS 1987-2004

Re: Social Media’s Dial-Up Ancestor: The Bulletin Board System

#23

Back in the day there were BBSs running on just about any type of microcomputer, CP/M, Apple II/Mac, Atari 8bit/ST, Commodore VIC/64/128/Amiga, TRS-80, etc. Most overviews focus just on the IBM-PC stuff (or what the author used back in the day - like Jason Scott an Apple II user). The smaller micro BBS were their own vibrant little universes. The Commodore 64 boards had a quite a few BBS systems from pretty spartan 6…

Virtual Arcade BBS in Cleveland, OH. Avid user.

Re: Social Media’s Dial-Up Ancestor: The Bulletin Board System

#24

Back in the day there were BBSs running on just about any type of microcomputer, CP/M, Apple II/Mac, Atari 8bit/ST, Commodore VIC/64/128/Amiga, TRS-80, etc. Most overviews focus just on the IBM-PC stuff (or what the author used back in the day - like Jason Scott an Apple II user). The smaller micro BBS were their own vibrant little universes. The Commodore 64 boards had a quite a few BBS systems from pretty spartan 6…

Sysop DARK KNiGHT BBS, not really sure on the years anymore, but I remember mowing a lot of lawns to pay for the damn phone lines.

Re: Social Media’s Dial-Up Ancestor: The Bulletin Board System

#25
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

14.4? Slow down there, friend, we lucky people were using Hayes 300 baud modems. I still remember my glorious upgrade path: 300->2400 (now we're cooking)->4800->9600->14.4->19.2->28.8->56k USR, Courrier, and Hayes were usually the best ones for me. I skipped 33.6 among other upgrades. The Courrier also had that extra punch if you were lucky enough to get one on the other end. The Unix stuff was pretty pedestrian as f…

acoustic coupled modems anyone?

I'd love to show my kids how mine worked - there's a few dial up BBSes out there still - but I don't have a landline and I've only heard bad things about attempting to use a modem over a VOIP service... and there's the little problem of plugging an old telephone into a PC to access that VOIP service in the first place.

Re: Social Media’s Dial-Up Ancestor: The Bulletin Board System

#26
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are two "features" that are hard to re-create with modern BBSes. These, in my opinion, partly lead to the good user experience. 1. Because you tied up a phone line (on both ends), your time was limited. This results in not only not wasting time while on there, but also an increase in anticipation for when you can next get on. It prevents people from getting to far ahead in games. 2. Banning could actually mean…

> Banning could actually mean something. You were not really anonymous (at least on the local ones) since you can be identified by your phone number and maybe banned that way Hypothetical question: if we would see a new emergence of mobile based BBS's, using some novel protocol without identifiable phone numbers but with ability to assign unique IDs to users and solve those problems, could it take off today?

I don't know about "take off", but it could work as a niche. People seem to be used to what they already have.

It doesn't have to be perfect, but at least much harder to game than the current situation.

Re: Social Media’s Dial-Up Ancestor: The Bulletin Board System

#27
post #6

I used to visit a BBS semi-regularly during middle school, I had always enjoyed the simplicity of the basic text interface. Not that there was much going on, this was around 2008, so everything was long-dead by then. Reddit (and HN) has its voting system and 4chan has the bump system, but there's something about newsgroups with the long-lived threads with email-length replies that really appeals to me. Will there eve…

I got rather obsessed with BBS in the early-mid 1990s. That quickly turned into an obsession with Usenet.

Looking back, those were amazing times. By day, I was an awkward teenager who was still battling a pesky speech impediment. But, by night, I was part of communities where I was judged by the quality of my writing!

All that said, while I see what you're saying, BBS and Usenet both had their problems.

With Usenet, the biggest problem was discoverability. There were amazing, inspiring threads, but it took work to find them. When you would find an amazing thread, you had to parse through (often hundreds) of meaningless replies to find the few gems. Then, there was the sheer hostility of some of the communities. While much of that was reserved for newbies who violated the oft incomprehensible etiquette, some of it was just insane. For example, massive flame wars would erupt over the slightest provocation. This sounds silly in retrospect, but there was a point where typing 'Reconstruction of the Fables' in rec.music.rem would provoke serious hate.

With BBS, particularly when they were popular enough to be busy, the biggest issue was that people are really fucked up when they think they're anonymous.

Re: Social Media’s Dial-Up Ancestor: The Bulletin Board System

#28
Oh that takes me back. There were so many BBSes in the 312 in the mid 90s. Just reading the list [1] is like a trip down the memory lane.

The end of that article makes a great point. There was a huge diversity of communities back then, and each of them was small enough that they didn't devolve into spam and mindless trolling. It's something I really miss, and something that can't be replicated by uber-sites like reddit or facebook...

[1] http://bbslist.textfiles.com/312/

Re: Social Media’s Dial-Up Ancestor: The Bulletin Board System

#29
post #20

I was too young to use BBS when it started but the topic fascinates me, especially after having read Hackers and The Innovators. Not to hijack the topic, but has anyone watched the show Halt and Catch Fire (available on Netflix)? I'm curious how accurately that show captures the culture of that era. Would love any additional reading recommendations around BBS' emergence as well. Already bookmarked the documentary ser…

I'm in a similar boat, too young and too modem-deprived to get in on the BBS scene.

If you like phreaking as well, Exploding The Phone is really good.

Re: Social Media’s Dial-Up Ancestor: The Bulletin Board System

#30

I often remark that people love reimplementing BBSs badly, and a fraction of the functionality. Of course it's not an entirely fair comparison because of the scope, different UI/nature of the web, audience size, and speed of communication to name a few issues. It's important to note that your average decent BBS had most if not all of the following: * Files - Often meticulously organized, with sometimes user voting or…

I care. I'd be interested to see your list and notes, even if only to offer some encouragement.
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