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Twitter Plans Hundreds More Job Cuts as Soon as This Week

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Re: Twitter Plans Hundreds More Job Cuts as Soon as This Week

#91

I've always sort of had this question that continues to feel naive - but I'm not sure I know the answer: why do so many companies feel like they have to grow perpetually? Why can't Twitter just be happy being Twitter, knowing its limits and making a stable profit? Instead it's more users, more VC money, more staff... constantly burning as quickly as possible. There's a ceiling on every business; it's all bound to com…

> Why can't Twitter just be happy being Twitter, knowing its limits and making a stable profit

Your assumption, that Twitter is profitable, is unfortunately wrong.

Re: Twitter Plans Hundreds More Job Cuts as Soon as This Week

#92

I've always sort of had this question that continues to feel naive - but I'm not sure I know the answer: why do so many companies feel like they have to grow perpetually? Why can't Twitter just be happy being Twitter, knowing its limits and making a stable profit? Instead it's more users, more VC money, more staff... constantly burning as quickly as possible. There's a ceiling on every business; it's all bound to com…

People have answered this before, and what it boils down to is: because they took VC money, and then went public. If you bootstrap a business from nothing and grow it on its own, then sustainable growth and stable profit is fine. But Twitter got VC and IPO money with a promise that it would have Facebook-like growth in return. I think the analogy I saw used was that they promised investors a Porsche and instead deliv…

And what should also concern people about this is that our entire issuance of money as debt demands constant growth ahead of interest rates. Or you can have a time where you continually cut rates, print and call it growth, until you get to zero and it all falls apart.

I'm not sure either are a good outcome from a bad idea.

I'll also put my other question in this post seeing as I have tripped the HN rentier alerts by using words that may upset our parasitic rentier VC gods, leading to the weasel "you're submitting too fast" after one post.

What is patio-11 ?

Re: Twitter Plans Hundreds More Job Cuts as Soon as This Week

#93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is one simple item: "When you take someone's money, their priorities are now your priorities" If you can bootstrap your business with 30k and make a 20k profit every month, then why do you need 1 million dollars from investors? When you take the money, it's just a golden handcuff and ties you to that person for the future. If your business lasts longer than 20 years, that may as well be an additional marria…

Because your competitor can raise those million dollars, and eventually your 20k profit per month becomes 20k loss per month. You can build all your imaginary arguments about magical businesses that make 20k profit per month while being self-sustained with holocracy, cruelty free, authentic, organic etc. etc. But the reality is that doing big things at bigger scale requires huge capital. If you are willing to pass up…

This is simply not true. Perhaps its significantly more true for certain industries - especially Saas and similar software. But even then it is no rule.

Re: Twitter Plans Hundreds More Job Cuts as Soon as This Week

#94
post #35

I've always sort of had this question that continues to feel naive - but I'm not sure I know the answer: why do so many companies feel like they have to grow perpetually? Why can't Twitter just be happy being Twitter, knowing its limits and making a stable profit? Instead it's more users, more VC money, more staff... constantly burning as quickly as possible. There's a ceiling on every business; it's all bound to com…

Not everyone is like a cannonball wanting to burn so hot as to melt themselves. I would also like a patio-11 type of software business; so you're not alone! As far as twitter, they unfortunately took a bite of "poison apple" of public investment, and as such are beholden to investors, so must perform (and grow) to ever more higher levels. What would happen - i wonder - if twitter became private again, or better yet s…

what is patio11 ! Is it this guy? http://www.kalzumeus.com/?

Re: Twitter Plans Hundreds More Job Cuts as Soon as This Week

#97
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People have answered this before, and what it boils down to is: because they took VC money, and then went public. If you bootstrap a business from nothing and grow it on its own, then sustainable growth and stable profit is fine. But Twitter got VC and IPO money with a promise that it would have Facebook-like growth in return. I think the analogy I saw used was that they promised investors a Porsche and instead deliv…

Are they liable for those promises though? I am legitimately curious to know if they are contractually obligated to grow at a certain rate or be at certain valuation at this point in time.

They are not contractually obligated to grow at a certain rate.

However, if the majority of your shareholders are members of the public looking to earn a return, they're your boss. You might be CEO, but if your priorities aren't their priorities, they'll replace you. Even if you own the majority voting control in the company, there's a certain amount of good-faith effort you need to put into growing the profits of the company. In most jurisdictions, a public for-profit company is organized with the belief that the company exists to create as much profit as it reasonably can and shouldn't be operating in a way that avoids that. That doesn't mean doing scummy things or things that might realize short-term profits at the expense of the brand, but sometimes it becomes clear that a company is no longer operating with its (potentially minority) shareholders in mind.

There's actually a type of corporation that specifically notes that maximizing profit isn't the goal of the enterprise (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benefit_corporation). Twitter could have been formed as a B-Corporation and told its investors that it might make profit, but that profit wasn't its only goal.

But the thing is that Twitter isn't just making too little money. It's losing money. It would be like a coffeeshop that sold coffee for 10¢ a cup with 50,000 customers/mo and rent of $8,000/mo. They'd bring in $5,000 from their customers and be $3,000 in the hole at the end of the month. Now, there are a few ways to change that situation. 1) Get more money per customer. Twitter could sell more or better ads or you could give them money. That's hard. 2) Get more users. If Twitter earns $X/user/month in revenue and they're able to get double the number of users, that's double the revenue. If costs don't go up linearly with users, their situation will get better. If the coffeeshop gets 100,000 customers/mo, they'd be making $2,000/mo. 3) Twitter can lower costs. They can fire excess employees working on marginal projects; they can get rid of app features that might be computationally expensive to deliver.

The issue with many startups isn't always growth or investors, but even keeping one's head above water.

Now, even if Twitter can keep its head above water, is that enough? If Twitter became a non-profit and just advertised itself as a public service to the world, would that be enough to keep users around? So many companies are gunning to take down Twitter. Would Twitter survive if it slimmed down its staff and just kept Twitter alive? Would users migrate to other services that offered new, cool things?

I feel like Wikipedia is the only really high-traffic non-profit, but they're doing something that requires a lot less engineering (ie. most of the page can be easily cached and is the same for all users vs. Twitter).

The thing is that it's hard to bootstrap services with huge network effects like Facebook or Twitter and keep a small staff. It's often a winner-take-all (or most) market. Remember Pownce? Probably not. There were lots of microblogging companies and Twitter destroyed them all. To do that, they needed to staff-up as you handle scaling issues and add features. Once you're big, you want to keep focusing on growth since layoffs are demoralizing and if you stop growing, what's to stop a new company from coming along and knocking you off?

It's easy to think that Twitter could be run with less of an eye for growth or profit, but given that it's losing money right now and that can't continue forever, it at least needs to get to a head-above-water place. The most promising ways of getting there are things like getting more users, cutting costs like staff, and figuring out how to get more revenue per current user. In fact, one could argue that the layoffs are part of Twitter not prizing growth above all else. They're trading growth (that could be driven by those employees) for cost (the salaries of those employees). Twitter is going the route of the less-growth, slimmed-down company looking to just keep chugging along. But even then, Twitter needs to get its head above water and this is kinda part of that (unfortunately).

Re: Twitter Plans Hundreds More Job Cuts as Soon as This Week

#98

I wonder why Twitter doesn't do consulting. They have developed a lot of the big data frameworks that we use today and understand how to scale. They have the talent and are in a unique position of being Twitter.

Just out of curiosity, which ones have they developed?

Re: Twitter Plans Hundreds More Job Cuts as Soon as This Week

#99

I've always sort of had this question that continues to feel naive - but I'm not sure I know the answer: why do so many companies feel like they have to grow perpetually? Why can't Twitter just be happy being Twitter, knowing its limits and making a stable profit? Instead it's more users, more VC money, more staff... constantly burning as quickly as possible. There's a ceiling on every business; it's all bound to com…

The simple answer is if you IPO at a certain price and declare you don't plan on growing at all, then nobody will participate in your offering or buy your shares in the open market. It's just a fact of life that as a public company you need to prove to your shareholders that next year your shares will be worth more than right now. Otherwise outside investors have no reason to invest in your company rather than keeping their money in a savings account (or a low risk alternative). The same basic premise applies to VC investments.

That's not to say that a patio11-style business is wrong, just that it's very different. It's personal preference if you've started the business and there's no right or wrong way.

Re: Twitter Plans Hundreds More Job Cuts as Soon as This Week

#100

I've always sort of had this question that continues to feel naive - but I'm not sure I know the answer: why do so many companies feel like they have to grow perpetually? Why can't Twitter just be happy being Twitter, knowing its limits and making a stable profit? Instead it's more users, more VC money, more staff... constantly burning as quickly as possible. There's a ceiling on every business; it's all bound to com…

Hah. I think patio11 just joined Stripe, one of the fastest growing startups around :) Anyway, besides many of the usual answers, talent is a key one often forgotten. People want the chance to do new and ever changing things so as to be challenged. It's hard to retain good people when they know it's going to be a smaller company with modest growth. What often kills companies with slowish growth is that they lose their best people to other companies with a more dynamic environment.
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