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Why you should never use Upwork

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Re: Why you should never use Upwork

#151

Post by vram22 »

throwaway7312 wrote: post #128

From the employer side. We're a platinum employer on UpWork with probably close to $100,000 spent on the platform and maybe 70 completed jobs. Tons of reviews calling us one of the best employers on UpWork. Right after oDesk merged with eLance to form UpWork, the platform rolled out its new "job success" score and sidelined star ratings (which was how it'd previously determined employer and contractor quality). We ty…

Upwork rate is 22.5%? I think when it was Odesk (before merging with Elance) it was 10% - last I checked, some time ago. And when Odesk started it was 30%, IIRC.

Re: Why you should never use Upwork

#152

Post by utefan001 »

throwaway7312 wrote: post #141
almata wrote: post #69

From the Upwork FAQ: "You'll need to download and use the Upwork Team App—this tool includes the Work Diary, which ensures you are guaranteed payment. By taking work-in-progress screenshots every 10 minutes, it provides proof to your clients that you are hard at work." Screenshots every 10 minutes? You mean... screenshots of MY SCREEN every 10 minutes? That was what made me close their website and totally forget it u…

As a long-time UpWork user, this has saved our butts a few times, especially with technical hires. We've had times we had hires billing full work weeks but seemed not to be getting much done. But how do you know if it really ought to take 10 hours or 40 hours to complete a task? I've done enough research, writing, and coding myself to know sometimes the thing you think will take 10 minutes ends up taking 2 days inste…

Upwork is far from perfect, but if you apply some rules of common sense and also have decade+ of tech experience, it can be useful.

I always allow manual time, but restrict the hours to 5 or 10 per week. If the hire does not meet my expectations, I move on and accept the lost money as a learning experience.

I don't give a negative review, I know that I won't rehire, but I don't think I know the person well enough to tell the world they are bad.

There are some great people on upwork. The best advice is to be really nice to your hires and if possible, have interesting work for them to do. Nobody wants to freelance for a jerk.

Re: Why you should never use Upwork

#153

Post by Turing_Machine »

throwaway7312 wrote: post #141
almata wrote: post #69

From the Upwork FAQ: "You'll need to download and use the Upwork Team App—this tool includes the Work Diary, which ensures you are guaranteed payment. By taking work-in-progress screenshots every 10 minutes, it provides proof to your clients that you are hard at work." Screenshots every 10 minutes? You mean... screenshots of MY SCREEN every 10 minutes? That was what made me close their website and totally forget it u…

As a long-time UpWork user, this has saved our butts a few times, especially with technical hires. We've had times we had hires billing full work weeks but seemed not to be getting much done. But how do you know if it really ought to take 10 hours or 40 hours to complete a task? I've done enough research, writing, and coding myself to know sometimes the thing you think will take 10 minutes ends up taking 2 days inste…

Are you confusing "programming" with "typing"?

How does taking screenshots let you know that the person is thinking?

Okay, yeah, the guy who was looking at "Boob Forest" wasn't working, but just because you don't see a constant stream of keystrokes appearing on-screen doesn't mean a programmer isn't working.

Edit: this famous story comes to mind.

http://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?story=Negative_2000_Lin...

Re: Why you should never use Upwork

#154

Post by atrilumen »

khattam wrote: post #64
stanislavb wrote: post #26

I think UpWork deserves the negative PR now... They will be more careful from now on..

Any publicity is good publicity so I don't think it will help. We need more people like Peter Thiel. With these many years of work, there must be a few dozen lawsuits that could be funded to take these shitheads down.

With so many tales of "terminated my account; KEPT MY EARNINGS", I can't help but wonder if a class action lawsuit isn't appropriate.

Re: Why you should never use Upwork

#155

Post by detaro »

Turing_Machine wrote: post #153
throwaway7312 wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a long-time UpWork user, this has saved our butts a few times, especially with technical hires. We've had times we had hires billing full work weeks but seemed not to be getting much done. But how do you know if it really ought to take 10 hours or 40 hours to complete a task? I've done enough research, writing, and coding myself to know sometimes the thing you think will take 10 minutes ends up taking 2 days inste…

Are you confusing "programming" with "typing"? How does taking screenshots let you know that the person is thinking? Okay, yeah, the guy who was looking at "Boob Forest" wasn't working, but just because you don't see a constant stream of keystrokes appearing on-screen doesn't mean a programmer isn't working. Edit: this famous story comes to mind. http://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?story=Negative_2000_Lin...

Do you really think that he didn't do anything visible for hours and then had a magic spark that led him to delete 2000 lines? GP was careful to only point out strong negative signals.

Even if you do a lot of work on paper you're going to look stuff up online or in the code base, which is visible on screen.

That doesn't mean that this tool can't be abused in both directions, but it seems like an unfair critique of the GP post.

Re: Why you should never use Upwork

#156

Post by pictorius »

[deleted] wrote: post #34
jeffmould wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True. I was curious and did look at their site and didn't see a Kevin in the attorney list. Not to say he isn't one, just he wasn't listed on the site. I would have ventured to bet he was a rogue IT employee, but with some of the responses to complaints on Facebook, it does somewhat appear that if you question them they get defensive and argumentative. I run a site that helps ex-offenders find jobs, resources, etc..…

[deleted]

Background wipe would be a good brand name for toilet paper.

Re: Why you should never use Upwork

#157

Post by braveo »

mSparks wrote: post #122
rgbrenner wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you need to choose your clients carefully Except he never chose this client. He exchanged a few emails with a potential client, saw a red flag, and then decided not to work with him. He did exactly what you suggest, and now cannot accept any work through Upwork, has lost all existing work, and will not be paid for already completed work. All from declining one client.

Actually, while I generally agree with everything i'm reading - this one part I don't quite agree with. (He exchanged a few emails with a potential client, saw a red flag, and then decided not to work with him) The moment he accepted the username/password he engaged in a transaction - upwork rules or not. He "should" have had the price and work agreed before accepting anything, and if they sent it unsolicited his imm…

While I agree with you in spirit, there are two points to consider

1) it may have been unsolicited (you mentioned this), and 2) humans tend to be very "fuzzy". Maybe he should have towed the line, and now he's learned his lesson about why you always cover yourself.

But 99/100 times the human being on the other side just wants to get you the information you need and is just too trusting. We've all had those clients, and it's up to us to be trustworthy and not be the one who teaches that client what can happen if you don't protect yourself [1]

[1] Obviously what I mean by this is that you shouldn't be fucking over your client, educating them is another matter.

Re: Why you should never use Upwork

#158

Post by brian-armstrong »

Mithaldu wrote: post #120
almata wrote: post #69

From the Upwork FAQ: "You'll need to download and use the Upwork Team App—this tool includes the Work Diary, which ensures you are guaranteed payment. By taking work-in-progress screenshots every 10 minutes, it provides proof to your clients that you are hard at work." Screenshots every 10 minutes? You mean... screenshots of MY SCREEN every 10 minutes? That was what made me close their website and totally forget it u…

I can understand why some would not like this, and maybe it's because i'm german, but i do not mind this at all. Here's why: If i'm employed in an office and working at my work pc, not only is the machine often administrated by the company i am doing work for, and thus may have additional software in there, even if it's as simple as a VNC server. It is also on their premises and the screen plainly visible to cameras…

What if you accidentally revealed a private key on the screen during the screenshot? Are you willing to forfeit 10 minutes of time to keep your SSH or whatever else uncompromised? Or are you going to trust Upwork and your client to not somehow leak it, even accidentally?

Re: Why you should never use Upwork

#159

Post by Mithaldu »

brian-armstrong wrote: post #158
Mithaldu wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can understand why some would not like this, and maybe it's because i'm german, but i do not mind this at all. Here's why: If i'm employed in an office and working at my work pc, not only is the machine often administrated by the company i am doing work for, and thus may have additional software in there, even if it's as simple as a VNC server. It is also on their premises and the screen plainly visible to cameras…

What if you accidentally revealed a private key on the screen during the screenshot? Are you willing to forfeit 10 minutes of time to keep your SSH or whatever else uncompromised? Or are you going to trust Upwork and your client to not somehow leak it, even accidentally?

I delete the segment and enter manual time with an explanation of why i did that. Manual time isn't protected by oDesk in disputes, but in that situation it's fine to use and low risk.

Re: Why you should never use Upwork

#160

Post by nfriedly »

Back when Elance was a separate site, I created a script to automatically withdraw funds from my Elance account to my bank account. I posted it to their forums and promptly had my account locked "after a routine review". They unlocked it after I jumped through some hoops, but I think the same shoot-first attitude clearly survived the merger with upwork.
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