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Why you should never use Upwork

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Re: Why you should never use Upwork

#61
post #56
post #32

Apropos nothing: "$100 an hour is more than our CEO makes so I'm not sure we can budget $1500 for this". Don't bill hourly! I know this sounds like a very silly example (it's not even logically coherent) but reasoning like this gets deployed all the time , even with sophisticated clients. People have anchoring price points for hourly rates that they don't have for other billing structures. Fixing this to make more mo…

Just thinking out loud here (haven't tried this) but maybe a better approach would be to not mention time. Simply ask for project specs and break it down into priced components if need be. $1500 at $100 an hour sounds expensive if you're comparing to the CEO's salary. But $1500 for a piece of sales lead infrastructure that has to be built but can't be off the shelf bought. That sounds reasonable.

Heading off the objections you'll get to this: the downside to fixed-price billing is that it maximally exposes the worker both to errors in their own estimation and also to errors in specifications provided by client, and to scope changes. Fixed-price bidding forces the consultant to shoulder a lot of risk.

That's fine, if you're sophisticated. Certainly I think fixed-price bids are smarter than hourly billing. In a fixed-price bid, you get to describe the business impact of what you're doing, which can be huge even if the task is relatively simple, and then put a dollar figure next to that impact. Almost any number you come up with is going to at least sound sane in that context. It's the more favorable setting in which to present the comparison of value and price.

What I like better though is the hybrid approach. I still remember someone on HN saying that this was the first original approach they had heard to pricing consulting work --- which blew my mind, since it was simply the way I was taught by my partners to bid projects, and presumably the way they were taught as well.

The approach is this:

Come up with a fixed price for the work you want to do, and simultaneously an estimate of the number of days you believe that work will take. You can divide the former by the latter to arrive at a daily rate. In your bid, focus on the total price of the engagement, but "show your work" in terms of the number of billable days and your day rate. Include a clause stating that overages will be billed at that daily rate as well.

To most clients, this is the moral equivalent of a fixed-price bid, and they'll treat it like one. But it de-risks the project for you.

As you do more projects, you'll get a better sense of what your real daily rate is (it's higher than you think it is now). You can tune your bids so that you keep a fixed daily rate but still value-price your engagements. By the time you're routinely employing this kind of finesse, you'll have enough traction to easily figure these kinds of things out for yourself.

Re: Why you should never use Upwork

#63
Terrible story, all my support to you. It is completely true that the protection we have is very limited and that we must be VERY VERY selective with clients. Also if this means to reject offers. Also if this means to not earn money. I try to give qualified answers and i ask for qualified customers able to communicate and competent to discuss requirements. Otherwise i let them go away “Too busy on other projects thanks” is my mantra on Upwork It needs discipline and will but to be entangled in a poisonous relation with someone who can harm you… far worse. Push this story around, it is the best vengeance

Re: Why you should never use Upwork

#64

I think UpWork deserves the negative PR now... They will be more careful from now on..

Any publicity is good publicity so I don't think it will help.

We need more people like Peter Thiel. With these many years of work, there must be a few dozen lawsuits that could be funded to take these shitheads down.

Re: Why you should never use Upwork

#65
Hmmm, interesting:

"Thank you for using Upwork.

At this time we are unable to close your account. Please call our concierge team at 1-866-676-3375, select option 3, and we will help you close your account.

Please note: For security purposes, you will not be able to change your username, or open a new account with the same email address.

If you need help, please contact Support Services."

Re: Why you should never use Upwork

#67

I think the worst part about this is that I wasn't even surprised throughout the entire story. Anyone who has been a freelancer has dealt with the random, uncalled for threats from clients to give you a bad review or try to suspend your account. It's the reason I gave up on working on platforms like Upwork and Freelancer almost immediately. Building a personal network is way easier to find contract work and you'll ma…

>Anyone who has been a freelancer has dealt with the random, uncalled for threats from clients to give you a bad review or try to suspend your account.

It's amazing, isn't it? These are people who require outside expertise (they're hiring you after all) and yet do everything they can to make you feel small and worthless. It's utterly backwards.

I wonder how many of these abusive people are "idea" guys?

Regardless, utterly embarrassing on the part of Upwork. Glad they're being called out. I hope the internet has its way with them.

Re: Why you should never use Upwork

#68

Hmmm, interesting: "Thank you for using Upwork. At this time we are unable to close your account. Please call our concierge team at 1-866-676-3375, select option 3, and we will help you close your account. Please note: For security purposes, you will not be able to change your username, or open a new account with the same email address. If you need help, please contact Support Services."

Got the same message but somewhere I read it was due to the fact multiple users where present in my account (long time since I last used it).

I was able to remove the other user (under Settings - Permissions) and, subsequently, close the whole account.

Re: Why you should never use Upwork

#69
From the Upwork FAQ: "You'll need to download and use the Upwork Team App—this tool includes the Work Diary, which ensures you are guaranteed payment. By taking work-in-progress screenshots every 10 minutes, it provides proof to your clients that you are hard at work."

Screenshots every 10 minutes? You mean... screenshots of MY SCREEN every 10 minutes? That was what made me close their website and totally forget it until I've seen this submission on HN today.

Re: Why you should never use Upwork

#70
post #68

Hmmm, interesting: "Thank you for using Upwork. At this time we are unable to close your account. Please call our concierge team at 1-866-676-3375, select option 3, and we will help you close your account. Please note: For security purposes, you will not be able to change your username, or open a new account with the same email address. If you need help, please contact Support Services."

Got the same message but somewhere I read it was due to the fact multiple users where present in my account (long time since I last used it). I was able to remove the other user (under Settings - Permissions) and, subsequently, close the whole account.

No multiple users for me though. Will give it another try later on. I was already fed up with how Upwork works and this article just pushed me over the edge.
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