All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware • Hacker News Board

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#81

Post by seanmcdirmid » Thu, Oct 20, 2016, 12:56 AM UTC

PacketPaul wrote: post #69

CamperBob2 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's great that they're taking the big risks needed to move the industry forward, and not letting the lawyers run the company. But some of the risks they're taking are just completely stupid and unnecessary, such as calling their assisted cruise control "Autopilot." That's like waving the proverbial cape at the proverbial bull.

Pilot here. Airplanes have autopilot. While on autopilot you are still expected to be monitoring the flight and take control at a moments notice. Autopilot does not allow the pilot to take a nap or go in the back and party with the flight attendants. Autopilot is the correct term. I'm tired of always having to cater to the lowest common denominator.

The problem is that most consumers, like parent poster, do not really understand what pilots do, or that an autopilot simply holds the course steady (in the simplest form, at least).

Combine ignorance with misguided self-righteousness, and we get...this mess.

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#82

Post by hrayr » Thu, Oct 20, 2016, 12:56 AM UTC

11thEarlOfMar wrote: post #7

> Teslas with new hardware will temporarily lack certain features currently available on Teslas with first-generation Autopilot hardware, including some standard safety features such as automatic emergency breaking, collision warning, lane holding and active cruise control. Not sure what to make of this. New buyers are getting less than current owners now, but expected to get much more later? I can't think of a prece…

Perhaps the original iPhone falls in this category. It did less (games, apps) than the competition when it launched, but soon the same product overtook the competition when the app store and API was released.

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#83

Post by nodesocket » Thu, Oct 20, 2016, 12:57 AM UTC

dyarosla wrote: post #75

nodesocket wrote: post #23

Was there an event or video? Seems strange that Elon delayed this announcement from Monday if it's just a blog post (press release).

Commented above too but it looks like making a video took the extra few days: "Will post video of a Tesla navigating a complex urban environment shortly. That was what took the extra couple of days." https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/788902908175618049

Ok, makes sense. Thanks for the tweet link.

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#84

Post by mcmatterson » Thu, Oct 20, 2016, 12:58 AM UTC

thesimon wrote: post #70

If you go to the order page of the Model S, it says for the "Full Self-Driving Hardware": >Please note also that using a self-driving Tesla for car sharing and ride hailing for friends and family is fine, but doing so for revenue purposes will only be permissible on the Tesla Network, details of which will be released next year. Interesting decision.

This is a big deal, actually. It's a EULA for cars.

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#85

Post by dangrossman » Thu, Oct 20, 2016, 12:58 AM UTC

Element_ wrote: post #74

Will this new neural net and hardware be capable of advanced object detection? For instance if a plastic bag or piece of cardboard rolls across the highway a human driver knows it's safe to run over without stopping. Would a system like this just see an obstacle via radar and emergency brake? Google has been working on this problem for longer and they have access to the largest image/video datasets in the world to tr…

> Google has been working on this problem for longer and they have access to the largest image/video datasets in the world to train their models

As of August, Google's self-driving cars have 2 million miles of real on-road experience, while Tesla's Autopilot systems have 140 million. They're beaming back data to Tesla the whole time.

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#86

Post by marricks » Thu, Oct 20, 2016, 12:58 AM UTC

thesimon wrote: post #40

marricks wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This means they don't have confidence in running the same tried and tested programs on a completely new platform they just launched. Which makes complete sense, wouldn't it be irresponsible otherwise? It gives them time to confirm a new technology and update their maps of areas with information from the new wavelengths they're just now gathering.

> It gives them time to confirm a new technology and update their maps of areas with information from the new wavelengths they're just now gathering. Fair enough. I just tried to do a diff between the versions: Current implementation [0] * Camera module in the front * Front-facing Radar * 12 ultrasonic sensors New implementation: * 8 surround cameras * Front-facing radar * 12 ultrasonic sensors (updated) [0]: https:/…

What about the 40x faster processor with neural nets thrown in there somewhere? There's a bit more than just new cameras/sensors.

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#87

Post by phsource » Thu, Oct 20, 2016, 12:58 AM UTC

dyarosla wrote: post #73

phsource wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EDIT: Ignore the first paragraph below; @dyarosia mentioned correctly they're working on their own vision system, so they probably buy generic camera units. (IGNORE THIS: The surround cameras are likely still in collaboration with Mobileye, since in their case, Mobileye doesn't just give the camera hardware but also has a fair bit of software that makes all the cameras come together. It's not too likely Tesla's dupli…

But I thought that they had gone separate ways? ""When Tesla refused to cancel its own vision development activities and plans for deployment, Mobileye discontinued hardware support for future platforms and released public statements implying that this discontinuance was motivated by safety concerns" from http://www.cnbc.com/2016/09/16/tesla-says-mobileye-balked-af... And yes ofc, the LiDAR absence is interesting; ju…

Good catch! I think you're right; Tesla probably now buys pretty generic cameras (from various suppliers) and then integrates them, so the cost is definitely not that much.

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#88

Post by mdorazio » Thu, Oct 20, 2016, 12:58 AM UTC

Element_ wrote: post #74

Will this new neural net and hardware be capable of advanced object detection? For instance if a plastic bag or piece of cardboard rolls across the highway a human driver knows it's safe to run over without stopping. Would a system like this just see an obstacle via radar and emergency brake? Google has been working on this problem for longer and they have access to the largest image/video datasets in the world to tr…

I highly doubt it. They're not including Lidar, which means no high-resolution point clouds to be able to identify objects. In my opinion, this just doesn't cut it since ultrasonic is limited to relatively short range, and Radar doesn't provide the level of detail you need to really understand what is going on around the car beyond "there's some kind of object 100 feet ahead".

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#89

Post by thesimon » Thu, Oct 20, 2016, 12:58 AM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #72

thesimon wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>From a PR perspective, the name was a solid gold decision. I doubt it. It creates false hopes and probably hurted/hurts them when crashs happen. The Tesla autopilot death in June was a really big thing, yet other crashes where assistant systems of other manufacturers are never in the press. Maybe because of the name, maybe because the drivers use them better? Also look at what happened recently in Germany: 1. Basica…

The autopilot in an airplane cannot be used without a pilot paying attention, either, but it is still called an autopilot. (For example, autopilots do not avoid traffic on a collision course.)

On the other hand: The pilots are highly trained to fly and how to use the autopilot including the limitations.

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#90

Post by will_hughes » Thu, Oct 20, 2016, 12:58 AM UTC

Trufa wrote: post #36

simonsarris wrote: post #18

How interesting. So up-coming Tesla drivers temporarily won't get fancy features. For a time, new Tesla buyers again become early adopters. But unlike traditional early adopters, who take a trade-off (on price, or features, or polish) for being first, these adopters are promised the features when they are ready. The nay-saying around Tesla is immense, even in these early HN comments. Obviously there's some risk here,…

I wonder how much it has to do with the autopilot death: https://www.tesla.com/blog/tragic-loss EDIT: no idea why the downvotes, I'm all for self driving cars, but pretty obviously they could be scared of PR issues and lawsuits.

Almost certainly very little.

They've been clearly working on AP 2.0 for a long time - this sort of hardware upgrade isn't something you roll out in a few weeks. This capability was even pretty strongly hinted at for the Model 3.