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Germans React to UK’s micro:bit

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Re: Germans React to UK’s micro:bit

#41

Post by zyx321 »

mcv wrote: post #19
msravi wrote: post #2

It's somewhat surprising to me that the "block editor" thing is so popular in these beginner kits. My son (almost 11) was introduced to it at school[1] and did not find it intuitive at all. We then got an Arduino and started to write some simple programs, and he took to it right off the bat. The Arduino programming platform is simple enough to get a 10-year old started off and scales so well to "professional" project…

I think 11 is already too late for those blocks. I did some lessons with Blockly [0] in my son's class last years (kids of 6 and 7), and that worked fine for the oldest/smartest kids, though it was still a bit too hard for some. I plan to do it again this year (ages 7-9) to see how that goes. But after that, I think it's time for some Ruby or Python. I did Basic at that age. [0] https://blockly-games.appspot.com/

According to the Calliope FAQ and Mission Statement, it's targeted at "3rd grade and up" (meaning approx. 8-10 year old) and in addition to the block editor supports mbed, with Micro-Python support planned for fall 2016.

Re: Germans React to UK’s micro:bit

#42

Post by jl6 »

foobarian wrote: post #29
mcv wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think 11 is already too late for those blocks. I did some lessons with Blockly [0] in my son's class last years (kids of 6 and 7), and that worked fine for the oldest/smartest kids, though it was still a bit too hard for some. I plan to do it again this year (ages 7-9) to see how that goes. But after that, I think it's time for some Ruby or Python. I did Basic at that age. [0] https://blockly-games.appspot.com/

You know, what way is there today to get the simple experience of a C64 or a ZX spectrum? Several things there: - Instant on with a high level language interpreter - Simple architecture/ISA one can grow into - Maybe a monitor/assembler available from the interpreter - Powerful graphics, with simple things possible from the language, and full power available from machine code This would be perfect for around 8-10 year…

Web browser + view source + notepad is definitely the modern introduction to coding.

Re: Germans React to UK’s micro:bit

#43

Post by dmoo »

msravi wrote: post #2

It's somewhat surprising to me that the "block editor" thing is so popular in these beginner kits. My son (almost 11) was introduced to it at school[1] and did not find it intuitive at all. We then got an Arduino and started to write some simple programs, and he took to it right off the bat. The Arduino programming platform is simple enough to get a 10-year old started off and scales so well to "professional" project…

What is also important is the number of kids you are trying to teach at a time. Kids > 8 then blocks mean that everybody is somewhat productive through trial and error, even if some are held back by the interface. Try 30 young kids with a standard text based language and you end up achieving very little in a single class.

Re: Germans React to UK’s micro:bit

#44

Post by kriro »

ntoll wrote: post #28
kriro wrote: post #11

I saw a micro:bit keynote at a big conference somewhat recently. Overall I have to say I'm not all that impressed with the strategic decisions. There were some reasons for rolling their own but they could have partnered with existing alternatives (the keynote struck me as a tad bit too "nationalistic" for lack of a better word...basically "we must do it ourselves because...REMEMBER ACORN GLORY DAYS"). Now it seems Ge…

Hi, It was probably me you saw keynoting - perhaps at this year's EuroPython? I'm one of the volunteers behind the MicroPython related work for the micro:bit. Sorry you thought I was nationalistic. That's completely the opposite to my intention. :-( To set the record straight, my point about the Acorn BBC micro was only: 1) The BBC already have done something like this before and have "form", resources and reach in t…

FWIW, it wasn't EuroPython. It was Muc2016 in Aachen, Germany (human computer interaction conference)

Thanks for the explanation :) We're pretty much in agreement overall, some project choices just seemed odd though. These projects tend to be bureaucratic beasts on top of the technical challenges. One of the interesting takeaways was that the micro:bit team learned a lot of non-technical lessons that are valuable (how to best deploy the devices, what kids will do with them, what's especially interesting etc.)

"""A huge amount of research, development and testing that went into working out how the device should function. """

I guess that's where I disagree. I feel all this afford could have been invested into creating better software for existing solutions and focusing more resources on pedagogical aspects. At the end of the day the micro:bit costs 13-15 pounds a pi-zero costs maybe 6? I don't feel the hardware side of things provided the most value for the invested tax money I guess. HUGE DISCLAIMER: if the hardware is open sourced fully eventually (I also heard/read it's planned eventually) then I'm actually cool with building yet another smallish computing device.

"""This isn't just about creating a new generation of engineers; Rather, I'll know we've succeeded if in fifteen years I meet doctors, teachers, artists, musicians, lawyers, civil servants and other professionals who are computer literate enough to know how to effectively explore and make use of such technology. """

Completely agree.

Re: Germans React to UK’s micro:bit

#45

Post by jgrahamc »

Having played around with Raspberry Pi, Arduinos of all stripes, and micro:bit I was disappointed by the micro:bit. But I've also seen children use it in a school environment and seen the sheer delight of writing code that makes something do something.

It's biggest limitation is the display. It's a pity that something with a bit more pixel density wasn't possible because displaying text on it is a pain and 5x5 is really limited for graphics.

Re: Germans React to UK’s micro:bit

#46

Post by wott »

Tomte wrote: post #15
solidr53 wrote: post #13

So this post is not about React? because captial R ...

Words in titles are conventionally capitalized (with the exception of "the", "a" and similar).

I've often wondered: Is it an English thing or an American thing? Is it recent or has it always been the rule? Does it depend on the 'class' of the publication?

To me it is unreadable, a real PITA to process such capitalised titles. Especially with English language, for it has very short words, hence capitals can harm the reading rhythm every 4 or 5 characters; and the same word can be a noun, an adjective or a verb depending on the context (and there is close to no context in a title).

Re: Germans React to UK’s micro:bit

#47

Post by digi_owl »

laumars wrote: post #38
msravi wrote: post #2

It's somewhat surprising to me that the "block editor" thing is so popular in these beginner kits. My son (almost 11) was introduced to it at school[1] and did not find it intuitive at all. We then got an Arduino and started to write some simple programs, and he took to it right off the bat. The Arduino programming platform is simple enough to get a 10-year old started off and scales so well to "professional" project…

The thing with block editors is that they're easier to teach. Bare in mind that most school teachers aren't going to be proficient in an imperative language. Some barely cope with MS Word and Excel. It's very easy for us to harp on about how language 𝒙 is easier than Scratch et al, but we are able to debug programs that fail to compile or execute as expected. We are able to assist with writing the syntax from memory…

You may also avoid the frustration that is "syntax error" when missing some ; or similar somewhere.

Re: Germans React to UK’s micro:bit

#48

Post by digi_owl »

dmoo wrote: post #43
msravi wrote: post #2

It's somewhat surprising to me that the "block editor" thing is so popular in these beginner kits. My son (almost 11) was introduced to it at school[1] and did not find it intuitive at all. We then got an Arduino and started to write some simple programs, and he took to it right off the bat. The Arduino programming platform is simple enough to get a 10-year old started off and scales so well to "professional" project…

What is also important is the number of kids you are trying to teach at a time. Kids > 8 then blocks mean that everybody is somewhat productive through trial and error, even if some are held back by the interface. Try 30 young kids with a standard text based language and you end up achieving very little in a single class.

Especially if you have someone who is more hands on getting stuck on a cryptic interpreter error.

We are all likely familiar with the non-informative "syntax error".

Re: Germans React to UK’s micro:bit

#49

Post by digi_owl »

willvarfar wrote: post #12
msravi wrote: post #2

It's somewhat surprising to me that the "block editor" thing is so popular in these beginner kits. My son (almost 11) was introduced to it at school[1] and did not find it intuitive at all. We then got an Arduino and started to write some simple programs, and he took to it right off the bat. The Arduino programming platform is simple enough to get a 10-year old started off and scales so well to "professional" project…

There are two things to untangle here: 1) Yes, agree that "blocks" editors are not terribly useful. I brought an Arduino redbot for my daughters (10 and 8) and after a couple of failed attempts at scratch-like programming, they actually found the C code immediately easier. This is so unintuitive! Ideas? 2) that the micro:bit is worse than the arduino; I don't think block programming or sourcecode has any bearing on t…

Could be because they had watched you at work, and thus recognized things even if they didn't fully understand it.

Re: Germans React to UK’s micro:bit

#50

Post by ableal »

nicky0 wrote: post #34
ableal wrote: post #31

Eh, this was posted about the same minute I was ordering one Micro:bit from Amazon UK (this one: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01G8X7VM2/ - perhaps the AAA battery holder is not really needed, if one has an USB power bank, but ...). Intended for a couple of youngsters with many hours of Minecraft under their belts, and curious about making games, etc. Did not go too crazy about fizzbuzz in Python on a terminal…

Fizzbuzz? Were you interviewing your kids for a tech Job? :)

The other way around ;-)
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