Earlier quoted context omitted.
Visiting non-AMP sites on mobile is masochistic (e.g. try searching news results). You get basically all the same problems, but also pop-unders, late loading ads, greedy javascript, autoplaying videos, and other bad behavior. The AMP is really quite solid for the news use case, in my experience.
AMP is bad on mobile Safari. The URL bar does not hide and reveal properly, the reader button doesn't work, and the scrolling momentum feels very wrong. That's why I try to avoid AMP links. Non-AMP sites are frequently improved by the reader button. That's how I prefer to read news sites.
Response from Google Tech Lead, Re: “Google May Be Stealing Your Mobile Traffic”
191–200 of 204 posts
Re: Response from Google Tech Lead, Re: “Google May Be Stealing Your Mobile Traffic”
#192Earlier quoted context omitted.
All these navigation elements are secondary, and further down the page. You have a point that if the user wants to, they are free to click any link they want. The fact remains that the top-most, primary navigation element on an AMP page is an "X" that closes you out of the publisher's page to send you back to Google. After that, the second most prominent navigation element invites you to browse other publishers. By d…
Yeah - that's really, really shocking to me. I paid attention to the AMP project early on, felt like I had absorbed its value proposition, and made a mental note to check on it from time to time. I wasn't expecting the examples of its usage to involve altering the UI on AMP pages! Is it just part of the blessed AMP WordPress plugin? Or is google actually injecting their own UI into AMP pages by default? If the latter…
Yes. Google doesn’t actually link to AMP articles, but caches them on their own servers, modifies the markup, or removes non-compliant ad networks, and serves that to the actual user.
Re: Response from Google Tech Lead, Re: “Google May Be Stealing Your Mobile Traffic”
#193Earlier quoted context omitted.
Instant articles is even worse, IMO. But Facebook is not pretending it's the next version of the Web. Google is, so they set up an expectation of Web like behaviors.
So what would you have done if you were in charge at Google? At the time Amp was announced, Facebook's Instant Articles was really taking off. It was by far the best place to read news online and arguably still is. To get a similar experience outside of Facebook (before Amp) you had to use an ad blocker. Right around that time, Apple added support for ad blocking in iOS and suddenly ad supported content outside of Fa…
File an antitrust complaint against Facebook, sue Facebook, and get a warrant to get Instant Articles instantly shut down?
> suddenly ad supported content outside of Facebook was looking unsustainable
And just pivot regarding that?
Re: Response from Google Tech Lead, Re: “Google May Be Stealing Your Mobile Traffic”
#194Earlier quoted context omitted.
This seems to compare favorably with the original article. How much information density are you expecting? Then you go on to imply that he's unqualified to be a TL because you don't like his polite and conversational tone in an article that criticized his project? I just don't understand HN anymore.
>I didn't imply anything you've said. I just noticed that his response looks like a product of PR or marketing department rather then tech lead. A appreciate the fact of quick reply, even if half of the credit for it should go to HN discussion.
Re: Response from Google Tech Lead, Re: “Google May Be Stealing Your Mobile Traffic”
#195Earlier quoted context omitted.
Do you think that it how most people search? (I'm not being sarcastic, I doubt they do but I obviously don't know)
I think it is the way most people who care about trying out multiple hits do it. For everyone else, the back button is good enough. Given that landscape, what is added by a fat page wrapper that makes it easier to go back to the search engine?
Also, in regards to your up-thread comment, on mobile browsers I will sometimes use that technique because (but only because it can be slow to wait for multiple to load), but doing so is generally more cumbersome. Hold on link, select to open in new window. If I could just quickly visit each as needed, returning if it wasn't what I was looking for, I would much prefer that (as opposed to on desktop, which while I would like quicker loading, I do still occasionally want to open multiple tabs for results as you suggest). That is, I don't think this is a half-baked solution to a problem caused by making tabbed browsing hard, I think it's a solution that addresses some of the reasons we use tabs in the first place (specifically, to parallelize loading times for possibly slow sites).
Re: Response from Google Tech Lead, Re: “Google May Be Stealing Your Mobile Traffic”
#196Earlier quoted context omitted.
Visiting non-AMP sites on mobile is masochistic (e.g. try searching news results). You get basically all the same problems, but also pop-unders, late loading ads, greedy javascript, autoplaying videos, and other bad behavior. The AMP is really quite solid for the news use case, in my experience.
Using Firefox for Android with uBlock Origin pretty much solved that problem completely for me.
Re: Response from Google Tech Lead, Re: “Google May Be Stealing Your Mobile Traffic”
#197Earlier quoted context omitted.
Using Firefox for Android with uBlock Origin pretty much solved that problem completely for me.
I use Firefox on Android + uBlock Origin as a default, but even loading the Firefox browser takes longer than loading, reading the first few lines of an AMP article, then going back because it wasn't interesting. And I have a high-end phone.
And bigger issues. My Galaxy S3 takes 4 secs to open Firefox without cache compared to 3 secs to open Chrome.
Re: Response from Google Tech Lead, Re: “Google May Be Stealing Your Mobile Traffic”
#198Earlier quoted context omitted.
Oh that is nice, was not the case last time I checked duck. Still, duckduckgo is an US company, better stay away from those given the history of last decade.
So better go with Yandex, the Russian company?
Re: Response from Google Tech Lead, Re: “Google May Be Stealing Your Mobile Traffic”
#199I think one important point is hidden within this sentence: "The original idea behind AMP was to allow content to be distributed to platforms (such as Google , Twitter and Pinterest) in a way that retains [...] control for the publisher." (emphasis mine) So Google sees itself as a platform in the tradition of Twitter and Pinterest - i.e. a controlled space on which content (with more or less control by the authors) i…
Re: Response from Google Tech Lead, Re: “Google May Be Stealing Your Mobile Traffic”
#200Earlier quoted context omitted.
At the moment yes you are right, but if we want it to stay that way we need to do something about it now. I agree that people mainly use Google because it's the default, but if we aren't careful there won't be an alternative left that can stand up against them. The only hope we'll have then is that Facebook, Apple, Amazon or Microsoft decide to tackle Google head on, but in most cases where that has happened in the p…
Between Facebook, Apple, Amazon, Microsoft and Google, who do you want to be the overlords of the web? Each one of them is trying to win total dominance and eventually one will. Google seem like they would be the least evil of the five.
The motto, the glibly pedantic color schema, the focus on simplicity on their home site, and cleanly (yet viciously) integrated ad revenue, even the language of the letter in the original link, all of these things point to a naivete that ignores how corrupt the ethos of what Google's central argument is: meritocracy above all else, in other words: down with the dumb, down with the lesser, all hail the perfectly manufactured data stream that contains what seems like childlike wonder, but is instead an amalgam of people's minds. They are sucking the intelligence out of us and selling it back at a markup so high it begs disbelief.
The fact that there is Bing is good, adn Bing's search isn't all that far below Google's in terms of getting good data from the web, but the point is: aren't we forgetting that there was a loooong time when we derived a lot of good data without their services? I find the aggressiveness of Google's ignorance to be quite frightening. I find that they are so far removed from the effects of their casual relationship with owning what happens to the data they are "curating" that it seems anathema to good governance, and governance it is because we are subject to the whims of their algorithm's ability to provide us with data that goes beyond what the mind can handle and handle sanely.
There is a monumental schism between what the web is comprised of and the first page of Google's query results, and that is what I think is at issue. What about all of the rest of the data that we never see? How do we know it's not interesting? How could we ever spend the time to sift through it to make certain we aren't missing data that is far easier to comprehend?
Long post, but a quick example: I program a fair amount. I like C++ for various reasons, but the C++ reference page is dry as the Red Sea after Moses played the downbeat of the 40 year cadence the slaves danced to after raising one too many pyramids.
I would wager that there might be a great C++ reference page out there somewhere that has easy on the eyes detail, a fairly conversational tone and nice examples that aren't at the very end of the page. But, because Google's algorithm (and Bing's, Yahoo's, Duck Duck Go, etc) all get tons of traffic from the cppreference.com page, it or some Stack response is the go to answer for essentially every question for which I need an answer. How is that well crafted page ever going to get the right recognition if everyone is being diverted to the cppreference page? It's like the old trope, we do it that way because that's the way we've always done it. Sometimes this means we drive the speed limit because that's the safest way to drive according the engineers who calculated the road conditions when they were built, but it's a little different in this instance because it's the _quality_ of the road that matters, not merely the velocity we drive that dictates the "goodness" of the experience.
Google (and the other big bots out there) are ignoring the quality in their algorithm(s) and merely settling for popularity as the guiding rubric, and I think we are all too aware of how that mentality can lead to unsalient choices.