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Wikileaks: Julian Assange's internet access 'cut'

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Re: Wikileaks: Julian Assange's internet access 'cut'

#701

Post by alistproducer2 »

yarou wrote: post #624
Mikeb85 wrote: post #525

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But if you have the choice between that and Trump, I cannot imagine how you could choose the latter. Status quo vs. something different. The status quo is that Obama/Hillary have destabilised countless countries, and are sabre rattling against Russia, possibly leading to an eventual nuclear war. By contrast, Trump is promising less wars, less interventionism, and otherwise is a relative wildcard with a penchant tow…

You are very astute, I only wish that my fellow countrymen would wake up to the truth. I truly believe Trump is a populist reformer, trying to help the Everyman. But keep in mind that even though the Populares were nominally "for the people", they only used them for their own ends. They were very much as political as the Optimates . It's a sad state of affairs when a relative madman looks like a saner alternative to…

While there are elements of Trump's desire to burn the system to ground that appeal to folks even on the left (like myself), I cannot dissociate the ideas from the man - the very disgusting man.The very thin skinned man who can be easily goaded into self-destructive behavior.

The POTUS can literally end humanity with a few words. That's not an exaggeration. I want change as much as the next guy, but not if it means handing the power to start the apocalypse to a man like Donald Trump.

Re: Wikileaks: Julian Assange's internet access 'cut'

#702

Post by [deleted] »

yarou wrote: post #624
Mikeb85 wrote: post #525

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But if you have the choice between that and Trump, I cannot imagine how you could choose the latter. Status quo vs. something different. The status quo is that Obama/Hillary have destabilised countless countries, and are sabre rattling against Russia, possibly leading to an eventual nuclear war. By contrast, Trump is promising less wars, less interventionism, and otherwise is a relative wildcard with a penchant tow…

You are very astute, I only wish that my fellow countrymen would wake up to the truth. I truly believe Trump is a populist reformer, trying to help the Everyman. But keep in mind that even though the Populares were nominally "for the people", they only used them for their own ends. They were very much as political as the Optimates . It's a sad state of affairs when a relative madman looks like a saner alternative to…

[deleted]

Re: Wikileaks: Julian Assange's internet access 'cut'

#703

Post by steveeq1 »

admax88q wrote: post #511
cryoshon wrote: post #462

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it became clear to me that, at some point, the attempts to tarnish Wikileaks's name was to prime the listening audience in a way such that when information so irreparably damaging would get released, the voters would have to choose between continuing a corrupt government and choosing an apparently mad authoritarian, and to soften the landing on the former. correct. you saw the exact same defamation routine a few ye…

> in other words: i want the dirt, too. 100% agree. I'm constantly amazed at how some ordinary citizens can be mad at Snowden or Assange for releasing information. Wouldn't you want to know? Even just for interest sake I like to know what government and politicians around the world are up to.

I've actually asked people about this, and the prevailing attitude is "it puts lives in danger" or "sacrifices national security". While I don't agree with those opinions , the opposing viewpoint seems to view Snowden as a "snitch".

Re: Wikileaks: Julian Assange's internet access 'cut'

#704

Post by gotchange »

forgetsusername wrote: post #687
gotchange wrote: post #681

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I disagree. Trump is the Republican nominee for the 2016 US presidential elections which means that he's as much a politician as Hillary or Obama is and should be held against the same set of standards like every politician does and this notion that since he's novice in this field he deserves to get preferential treatment and be forgiven for all his mistakes and wrongdoings is bit disingenuous.

> Trump is the Republican nominee for the 2016 US presidential elections which means that he's as much a politician as as Hillary or Obama is I hope you're kidding when you say he's as much a politician as Hilary. He has very limited political experience. She's been doing it for 30+ years. He's a candidate, but has held precisely zero public offices thus far. > this notion that since he's novice in this field he dese…

I am the one here who's advocating for equal and fair treatment for both candidates not the usual prevailing one for Hillary and a more lenient and almost non-existent for Trump because he's a newbie to the world of politics.

This is not a game. This is a real and serious national election for a superpower, and this levity when dealing with these matters is not helpful.

Your position seems to be along those lines above. If not, please clarify.

Re: Wikileaks: Julian Assange's internet access 'cut'

#705

Post by Kadin »

FireBeyond wrote: post #507
crdoconnor wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Edward Peck says it best: In 1985, when I was the Deputy Director of the Reagan White House Task Force on Terrorism, [my working group was asked] to come up with a definition of terrorism that could be used throughout the government. We produced about six, and each and every case, they were rejected, because careful reading would indicate that our own country had been involved in some of those activities. https://en.…

Similar: If we applied the laws we used to prosecute the Nazis at Nuremberg, every single post WWII US President/government would be considered to have committed war crimes.

I find it interesting that the Nuremberg Trials are continually held up, often by people who ought to know better, as a shining example of "International Law" and not a fairly straightforward example of the victors of a war taking the opportunity to polish off a few key enemies they missed. Which is a time-honored and not especially surprising practice, but hardly laudable, particularly when it involved some ex post facto invention of capital offenses.

Had it occurred in the context of anything but World War II, and was it aimed at anyone other than the Nazis, I think the consensus on it would be much more... nuanced. But because there is a very significant interest (across the US, Germany, Russia, Japan, etc.) in maintaining the Nazis as a singular sort of villain, so abjectly evil as to defy all comparison past or present, special rules apply.

(Plus, I suppose, there's some grading-on-a-curve that happens when the inevitable comparison is made between the Allied handling of the postwar environment and that of the Soviets; the Nuremberg Trials may have had certain jurisprudential imperfections, one could easily argue, but at least they didn't require heavy equipment just to dig the mass graves. Though that seems like damning with faint praise.)

Re: Wikileaks: Julian Assange's internet access 'cut'

#706

Post by camiller »

javajosh wrote: post #666
droopybuns wrote: post #615

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd like to suggest a more significant conclusion. The trust I have had in the Wall Street Journal, New York Times, ABC/NBC/CBS, Democratic and Republican parties has been irreparably damaged. I've been a cord cutter for over a decade. This year I graduated to pitying people who repeat the latest front page story as naive fear-junkies. Everything is suspect. Why burn processing cycles reading stories that on their fa…

It saddens me greatly to hear this sentiment reflected here at Hacker News. To reject the entire institution of journalism is a radical position, and not justified by fact. Manipulating the timing of release is a common tool used by literally every public figure and institution. To characterize timing manipulation as collusion and to imply that it means no-one can be trusted is a critical mistake. Given my position,…

Sorry but wasn't the NYT shown to be colluding with the DNC to stack the deck against Sanders in the emails wikileaks published from the DNC hack?

https://medium.com/@Starkweather/new-york-times-edited-berni...

Re: Wikileaks: Julian Assange's internet access 'cut'

#707

Post by angry-hacker »

xenadu02 wrote: post #679
bazillion wrote: post #625

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a summary of most of what has been found in the emails so far: https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/57vefh/podesta_... Some of the things found were: 1. The Goldman Sachs speeches, showing that Hillary has a "public and private position", is still against gay marriage, wants open borders, wants to enact gun bans, and wants to establish a hemispheric common market. 2. John Podesta (Hillary's campaign ch…

> 1. The Goldman Sachs speeches, showing that Hillary has a "public and private position", is still against gay marriage, wants open borders, wants to enact gun bans, and wants to establish a hemispheric common market. With the exception of a common market I must strongly disagree with your assessments. I'll also point out that everyone has public and private positions and everyone except the most socially inept trie…

That's not the point. Is it only left or right in America? Both candidates are rubbish and if you support Hillary you're no better than your average Trump's redneck.

Re: Wikileaks: Julian Assange's internet access 'cut'

#708

Post by dimino »

anthony_romeo wrote: post #237

We're in the middle of some crazy propaganda war right now, and it's been this way for quite a while. It became completely transparent when the Podesta e-mails were released mere minutes after Trump's videos regarding possible sexual assault were released. Ever since the DNC leaks and the subsequent accusations against Russia, it became clear to me that, at some point, the attempts to tarnish Wikileaks's name was to…

Regardless of what you believe about Wikileaks, it doesn't follow to think they're in league with the provider of the leaks. If you know anything about how Wikileaks solicits material, you'd know such isn't the case...

It does suck that they're timing their release with political motives, and Assange appears to be a gaping asshole (though not a rapist), but none of this is even remotely novel for Wikileaks.

Re: Wikileaks: Julian Assange's internet access 'cut'

#709

Post by novalis78 »

skylan_q wrote: post #635
droopybuns wrote: post #615

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd like to suggest a more significant conclusion. The trust I have had in the Wall Street Journal, New York Times, ABC/NBC/CBS, Democratic and Republican parties has been irreparably damaged. I've been a cord cutter for over a decade. This year I graduated to pitying people who repeat the latest front page story as naive fear-junkies. Everything is suspect. Why burn processing cycles reading stories that on their fa…

I've been there for a while. I only trust a few people who thanklessly go through materials and study issues in detail. If I want to verify further I can only then trust primary sources and direct evidence. For a long time now, all forms of traditional media have had a bent. It's just gotten very monied and politicized as of late.

One option of course, which as a European who had to live with media-government collusion his whole life, is to triangulate: Read foreign media, read political opponents views on the same topic as the mainstream media, read (if available) conflicting mainstream media stories. Take it all in, and triangulate. Very often the BS from one side cancels out the BS from the other side and you are not closer to reality. But very often it's the scrutiny from either side on an opposing paradigm, that gets you closer to what actually happened. Finally, draw your own conclusions based on history/education/philosophy.

Re: Wikileaks: Julian Assange's internet access 'cut'

#710

Post by r_smart »

spaceheeder wrote: post #672
pdx wrote: post #554

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To further what you're saying. Wikileaks announced for weeks when they were releasing the emails. It was a pre-planned event that the entire world was waiting for. The Trump tape, which had obviously been saved for a rainy day, was trotted out to distract from the pre-announced Wikileaks release. This level of premeditated collusion with the media is not even up for debate at this point, since the very emails they ar…

> Wikileaks announced for weeks when they were releasing the emails. It was a pre-planned event that the entire world was waiting for. Was it actually week(s) plural? I thought they only came out about a week late. > The Trump tape, which had obviously been saved for a rainy day, was trotted out to distract from the pre-announced Wikileaks release. I think this is a little much. Some cast and crew from The Apprentice…

>Ooh, me, me, I debate it. This is a dumb thing to say and you should feel dumb for saying it. It makes no sense and is not based on anything.

Insults do not qualify as debate. His claim is based on, or should include, the portions of the Podesta emails that have showed a dismaying amount of coordination with the press. Approving quotes, approving stories, printing talking points. Compare their behavior against the guidelines set out by the Society of Professional Journalists. It's a disgrace.

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