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Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

nytimes.com

151–160 of 279 posts

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#151
post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're going to play Devil's advocate, at least put some effort into it.

I asked people not to reply to the comment, thanks.

Which is part of my criticism of your post. You can't just say something inflammatory and walk away mic-drop style. That's not a constructive comment. That's also not how message boards work.

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#153
post #114

I'm one of these missing men. I'm currently 35, and have been working as a software engineer since I was 19. Two years ago, I started experiencing excruciating, unrelenting low back pain that eventually required me to leave my job and go on long term disability. I loved my job. I worked at MongoDB in Palo Alto for 3 years, contributing to the core database (C++) and designed a performance testing platform (among othe…

[deleted]

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#154
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the problem with your statement is that the Information Revolution came with a philosophy that automation would end the need for 9-5 Industrial Revolution ideas of work. It hasn't, and we're still working 40 hours a week, but now it's to support the consumption machine that WWII created. Do we really need new original Netflix programming? Do we need whatever crazy-ass pumpkin and coffee flavored beverage a ha…

Just a side note, hedonism is not the same as excess or consumerism: it is the maximization of pleasure over a lifetime. The experiences being sold are not the experiences we enjoy the most.

As a practical matter its like debates between people who know what "begging the question" means vs people who use it incorrectly over and over until the definition changes.

Or like the old definition of "hacker" WRT computers.

The ship has sailed, begging the question now means leading someone to ask a question, hacker means two minutes hate against computer criminals, and hedonism means laughably pitiful time preference problem or what is the opposite of a wise plan for the future.

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#155
post #90
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see this differently. I see a world heading towards basic income. Adam Curtis - HyperNormalisation was released last night ( http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p04b183c/adam-curtis-hy... ). Haven't watched it yet but I do think there seems to be a certain type of crazy happening in the world and I can't put my finger on it. We have whole generations of young people that have been disenfranchised and are having to…

Millennials have to carry that financial burden, but most other generations had to make much bigger sacrifices. I'd take the financial struggles of the millennial generation over having to fight in WW2 and rebuilding the nation in the aftermath, which is what the Greatest Generation got tasked with. Every generation faces difficult challenges, and the financial issues of the millennial generation are just a matter of…

I overheard someone last night talking about their father.

At 18, he had to join the Army. He spent the next two years in Europe.

He came home, and went to school on the GI bill.

He then went from job to job--trying to find one that had purpose. He decided to live in a commune. He bought a Indian motorcycle, and took off across the United States. When he need money, he would take odd jobs.(almost impossible today, unless you want to end up like that guy in Alaska who died in a bus.) He liked to drink, and smoke. He got into bar fights.(see how that one lapse of judgement will ruin your life today.) He finally found a job he liked. It was journalism. Within months, he had Union benefits.(again--try to find that today). Within a year, he had a house.(again--blah, blah, blah.) Then a wife, and kids.

I took away two things from that speech.

I couldn't imagine having to go to war at 18.

The other was all the things he did when he got home, and how now---just one mistake could ruin the future of a young person.

I'm not a millennial.

That said, I don't like this economy. I don't like knowing if I make one mistake, I could seriously derail my life. I don't like the fact that we have made so many things, once legal, illegial. Hell, you can't even smoke a cigarette in a park. You can't bum around until you find youself. You're lucky if you have a parent that has a basement you can throw a mattress in.

I really just don't like this current American society.

Would I want to be thrown into a war at 18--no.

That's about all I don't like about the past though.

(I won't be back to debate all the clever counter points. All I know is it's not great today. America has lost a lot. This is not the best country anymore. We need change. I would like to start with rolling back laws. It seems like there's a law against everything? Again, I won't be back, but understand the frustration out there.)

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#156
post #83
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see this differently. I see a world heading towards basic income. Adam Curtis - HyperNormalisation was released last night ( http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p04b183c/adam-curtis-hy... ). Haven't watched it yet but I do think there seems to be a certain type of crazy happening in the world and I can't put my finger on it. We have whole generations of young people that have been disenfranchised and are having to…

At scale, all basic income will get you is a cot in an urban dorm somewhere (possibly not of your choosing). You'd be able to take walks, sit by the river and write in a journal, or do whatever idle activity appeals to you, but it won't be fancy.

You write that as though its not a paradise?

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#157
post #150
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The simple idea of idleness and staying at home to paint or draw seems to drive people crazy. It kinda does, because for you to be able to idle and sit in your home painting, somebody else has to go on the "giant treadmill" to feed you, house you, and clothe you. Do you think I wouldn't like to idle at home as I please, and paint and write and read and laze about? Only if everybody did that we would all starve to de…

> somebody else has to go on the "giant treadmill" to feed you, house you, and clothe you This is becoming less and less true, as there are less and less demand for labor, because of automation. You only look at the physics aspect of the economy. Meanwhile, labor is changing. A job is privilege, not a right. People consent to work. They decide that they want to get that money. The concept of "contributing to society"…

Perhaps you live in the future, for the rest of us who don't receive benefits its not a privilege but a necessity. We are not "contributing to society" because we are overzealous altruists, its quid-pro-quo.

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#158
post #114

I'm one of these missing men. I'm currently 35, and have been working as a software engineer since I was 19. Two years ago, I started experiencing excruciating, unrelenting low back pain that eventually required me to leave my job and go on long term disability. I loved my job. I worked at MongoDB in Palo Alto for 3 years, contributing to the core database (C++) and designed a performance testing platform (among othe…

I was one who called the other guy lazy. You are different, and I know there are many others who are in similar situations as yourself.

The current opiate epidemic and crackdown is also unfortunately affecting people like you, who are legitimately in pain.

I don't really have anything, besides saying that we as a society should do what we can to get you healthy, but I feel that when there's people who are healthy enough to train for the army, and mentally capable, and still refuse to do anything, that's when society in general starts feeling "why do we have welfare?" and, essentially, their behavior hurts those who actually need the help.

I wish you the best.

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#159
post #27

I'm not even american, I'm french, 31, I have skills in programming (C++, php, python, and some math), did not obtain my degree, and I have never worked more than a month during all my life. I currently have the disability status, and I will soon train to be an army reservist. I regularly see a psychiatrist for therapy and took anti depressant for 4 years. The inactivity and the feeling of exclusion is soul-killing (…

I had a discussion with OP in the past [1]. It basically boils down to him believing society has advanced to the point where not every one has to work (due to automation etc). Basic income (BI) should therefore be implemented and the societal perception of idleness/laziness be removed for people who don't work. The OP's motivation for this stance seems to be partially to justify his stance for ceasing search for work. While OP's circumstances seem to work for him (living with parents, welfare support), he does not understand that it wont work for the majority of people. He is basically wanting society to already behave as if BI has been implemented.

I can understand that the OP is getting tired of job hunting. It makes sense he believes working is not necessary and I actually agree with the OP somewhat. However, I think the only reason he has this stance is because of his difficulty in finding a job.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11322640

Re: Millions of Men Are Missing from the Job Market

#160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think I resonate with you. I think that the number one occupation we should have is to live our lives. The way we do this should be according to our values and not neccesarily to how others think we should. Now, life has a mechanistic component driven by neccesities and an artistic one driven by ideals, self expression and pleasure. The promised goal of modern technology was that a large part of the rutined work co…

I'm not sure if many realize, but in such a world very few would actually work. All the rest will play. Okay, so who decides who will work and who will play? Why should I bust my ass all day working, while you just live however you want to? Right now, the reason some people bust their ass working, is being they can get paid more and live a higher quality of life. If everybody get everything they want, why would anyon…

Because if you bust your ass, you can put more then food on your table.
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