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Feds Walk into a Building and Demand Everyone's Fingerprints to Open Phones

forbes.com

161–170 of 190 posts

Re: Feds Walk into a Building and Demand Everyone's Fingerprints to Open Phones

#161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sources please. Only thing I can think of in the UK, something about forced to unencrypt. I do not carry a phone though.

Wikipedia gives a good summary for each nation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Key_disclosure_law

Key Disclosure Law is not what was implied by the parent: h >not giving your password, even to a random search

Re: Feds Walk into a Building and Demand Everyone's Fingerprints to Open Phones

#162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reading this from the Forbes article: https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/3143273/Mass-Fing... Relevant bits start at page 5 (III - LEGAL DISCUSSION). Compelling a person to provide his or her fingerprint does not implicate, let alone violate, the Fifth Amendment. "[B]oth federal and state courts have usually held that [the Fifth Amendment] offers no protection against compulsion to submit to fingerprinting."…

But my phone is mine, it contains deeply personal things that I put on there without the intention of sharing them. How is forcing me to unlock my phone anything other than forcing me to testifying against myself? If they could, they would read your mind too.

How about we stop expecting "justice" to work in our favour and start forcing it to work in our favour?

If you don't want anybody to be able to take your stuff, don't make it possible for somebody to take your stuff. A piece of paper saying something isn't permitted is not going to stop it happening.

Re: Feds Walk into a Building and Demand Everyone's Fingerprints to Open Phones

#163
post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Problem "in", not problem "is". (In case you're interested, Pierre Sallinger touches on the post '72 role of the media in the selection process in his 1995 c-span interview: https://www.c-span.org/video/?67372-1/ps-memoir [edit: jump to 44:56])

That seems like splitting a pretty fine hair to me.

As a system administrator: No. It's not. A broken system and a system being misused are two entirely different things. It could be suggested that a system is broken if it can be misused and indeed an ideal system will be incapable of misuse. But I've never met one yet.

Re: Feds Walk into a Building and Demand Everyone's Fingerprints to Open Phones

#164
post #2

Just another reason to forgo the convenience of biometrics in favor of a password/phrase that exists only in your mind. At least for now, that's something you can't be compelled to produce. Really though, this descent into a police state is such a pathetic outcome for this country. Dangerous, scary, and tragic, but also... pathetic. This is what happens when a sizeable majority don't even participate in the electoral…

I'm not sure if "overwhelmingly mindless" is the right characterization. In my opinion, the most interesting story playing out among the Western nations is what is happening in Poland right now. In the USA, people fought for independence from Britain starting in 1775, so obviously those people are not alive in 2016. But in Poland, many of the people alive now are the same people who overthrew tyranny in 1989. That's…

Both events can be equally connected to nationalistic conservatism: the national identity of Poland is as much defined by slavic resistance to anything non-slavic coming from the west (e.g. the Teutonic Knights of old) as it is by catholic resistance to anything non-catholic coming from the east (e.g. eastern churches, anti-church ideologies like forced communism and most famously, Turks sieging Vienna).

Re: Feds Walk into a Building and Demand Everyone's Fingerprints to Open Phones

#165
post #89
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. I got into a little argument with my brother over this last week, as he is a "I don't care, I have nothing to hide."

That only works if you trust the person looking. If the authorities are seeking to blame or frame or shame... suddenly you have everything to hide.

Without trust, you have everything to protect from evidence planting.

Re: Feds Walk into a Building and Demand Everyone's Fingerprints to Open Phones

#166
post #146
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think whatever is on your phone would be of little or no interest to either party.

Even the dumbest thief has a smartphone and knows it can contain information at least as valuable as the phone itself, and maybe even nudie pics.

The average burglar wouldn't know that, and wouldn't have anything they could do with that information. They're a drug addict who wants shit to fence for a fix. Burglary of the average residence is an insanely stupid crime with enormous risks and penalties.

Re: Feds Walk into a Building and Demand Everyone's Fingerprints to Open Phones

#167
post #143
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think whatever is on your phone would be of little or no interest to either party.

Thieves sell the phone on to people who know how to exploit what is on your phone to try to get access to your accounts and money.

How would your phone give them access to any of that? All of that kind of thing is inevitably protected by more security layers they won't be able to break, and meanwhile, the phone itself is worth something once wiped. Worse, the longer they fiddle with your phone, unwiped, the longer they risk someone tracking that phone.

They're burglars, not masterminds.

Re: Feds Walk into a Building and Demand Everyone's Fingerprints to Open Phones

#168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wagging fingers is one of the more boring forms of political discourse, and no matter how unacceptable you find an opinion, you will never finger-wag someone out of one.

You are wagging fingers also, and therefore boring. Honestly, I've been finger-wagged out of an opinion or two, so "never" is too strong. Frankly, I challenge you to name any form of "political discourse" that regularly changes opinions. In my experience political discourse in general rarely accomplishes anything other than preach to the choir and cause opponents to dig in.

I'm not telling you what to do, which is a necessary component of the finger wagging. I do enjoy when people accuse me of the actions they are taking, though. Very human. Very, very human.

Re: Feds Walk into a Building and Demand Everyone's Fingerprints to Open Phones

#169
post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But my phone is mine, it contains deeply personal things that I put on there without the intention of sharing them. How is forcing me to unlock my phone anything other than forcing me to testifying against myself? If they could, they would read your mind too.

How about we stop expecting "justice" to work in our favour and start forcing it to work in our favour? If you don't want anybody to be able to take your stuff, don't make it possible for somebody to take your stuff. A piece of paper saying something isn't permitted is not going to stop it happening.

If the piece of paper says I can be forced to tell them my password, they will try to force me... and I will give my password. You can simply put people in jail for not disclosing their password, when the law provides these means.

Re: Feds Walk into a Building and Demand Everyone's Fingerprints to Open Phones

#170
post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't even need to compel you. They get your fingerprint in the booking process and then they can reuse it however they please.

Does that really work on iPhones? Plus, if they ever get my phone, I'd do my best to ensure it's powered down (needs password to unlock from boot).

Yes, it works on iPhones. It doesn't even require specialized equipment. http://qz.com/631697/a-regular-inkjet-printer-can-spoof-a-fi...
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