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Feds Walk into a Building and Demand Everyone's Fingerprints to Open Phones

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31–40 of 190 posts

Re: Feds Walk into a Building and Demand Everyone's Fingerprints to Open Phones

#31
post #24
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. I got into a little argument with my brother over this last week, as he is a "I don't care, I have nothing to hide."

I find that convenience is a perfectly acceptable reason to surrender personal safety/privacy. I'm not saying I personally agree, I'm saying I can respect it.

It is acceptable but not "perfectly". It is acceptable with an additional condition: if you also accept the fact that the act of surrendering your privacy increases the pressure to expose the privacy of those who are not so willing to expose theirs.

Re: Feds Walk into a Building and Demand Everyone's Fingerprints to Open Phones

#32
post #23

I have to wonder what sort of technical measures could be implemented to make biometric systems as legally secure as passwords while still retaining something like the same convenience. The first thing that comes to mind for me is the Apple patent on recognizing a fingerprint anywhere on the phone's surface, and using that in combination with Android-style lock screen patterns. A lock screen pattern isn't nearly as s…

While I'm all for the idea that sometimes you have to make do with what tools you have available, why are we looking for technical solutions to a legal (or perhaps even philosophical) problem? Philosophically and legally I am firmly convinced that we should treat information, and therefore data, as an extension of consciousness. Information is only meaningful because we have the conscious capacity to interpret it; di…

Hi, my name is Grey. My voice is my password, verify me. Seriously though, would it really be a challenge to simulate someone's speech in that way? If the key element which makes a system secure is the biometric side, then that's still the point to attack legally and otherwise.

Re: Feds Walk into a Building and Demand Everyone's Fingerprints to Open Phones

#33
post #2

Just another reason to forgo the convenience of biometrics in favor of a password/phrase that exists only in your mind. At least for now, that's something you can't be compelled to produce. Really though, this descent into a police state is such a pathetic outcome for this country. Dangerous, scary, and tragic, but also... pathetic. This is what happens when a sizeable majority don't even participate in the electoral…

I'm not sure if "overwhelmingly mindless" is the right characterization. In my opinion, the most interesting story playing out among the Western nations is what is happening in Poland right now. In the USA, people fought for independence from Britain starting in 1775, so obviously those people are not alive in 2016. But in Poland, many of the people alive now are the same people who overthrew tyranny in 1989. That's an interesting story. Among the Polish public there are many who were willing to risk their lives to fight for a more open, democratic and liberal political system, in 1989. And now, in 2016, Poland is suffering the same shift towards authoritarianism that we see in other Western countries.

Just so I'm clear, I'm saying I find this interesting because in many cases we are talking about the same people who were alive in 1989. In the USA you can say "Oh, that generation believed in those things, but those currently alive don't believe in these things." (I don't agree with that statement, but you could make that argument.) Whereas in Poland, it's in many cases the same people who fought for a more open system who are now tolerating the drift towards a more authoritarian system.

To me, the story isn't about "overwhelmingly mindless" voters, its about voters who are angry with the failure of the system. That is, they are mindful of how the system has failed. They may not know what the answer is, but they are angry, and they are willing to elect politicians who seem to mirror their anger. It might be a bad strategy to vote for someone simply because they appear to reflect your anger, but I think I can understand the motivation, and it is not quite the same as being mindless.

Re: Feds Walk into a Building and Demand Everyone's Fingerprints to Open Phones

#34
post #10

This is why my unlock is not tied to biometrics. Once I realized the government can compel you to unlock your phone without a warrant using your fingerprint it became a much less compelling feature. The same for facial recognition.

Do you travel ? In much if not all of Europe not giving your password, even to a random search when passing through (not entering the country), is a crime. Therefore legal advice is to provide custom agents and other police with access to any device upon request and then.

Re: Feds Walk into a Building and Demand Everyone's Fingerprints to Open Phones

#35
post #10

This is why my unlock is not tied to biometrics. Once I realized the government can compel you to unlock your phone without a warrant using your fingerprint it became a much less compelling feature. The same for facial recognition.

Do you travel ? In much if not all of Europe not giving your password, even to a random search when passing through (not entering the country), is a crime. Therefore legal advice is to provide custom agents and other police with access to any device upon request and then.

Forgetting your password is a crime? Have they consulted neurologists?

Re: Feds Walk into a Building and Demand Everyone's Fingerprints to Open Phones

#36
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Biometrics could be used as a username, but should not be used as a password...

Exactly. It is a form of identification not authentication.

I heard fingerprints described as "Authentication, not authorisation", which I think is a better description of the role they play (on the iPhone, at least), and the role they should play.

They authenticate who you are, they aren't trivial to fake. However, they shouldn't authorise access to a device on their own. Your fingerprint works as a somewhat more secure, medium term swipe-to-unlock for your phone.

Re: Feds Walk into a Building and Demand Everyone's Fingerprints to Open Phones

#37
post #2

Just another reason to forgo the convenience of biometrics in favor of a password/phrase that exists only in your mind. At least for now, that's something you can't be compelled to produce. Really though, this descent into a police state is such a pathetic outcome for this country. Dangerous, scary, and tragic, but also... pathetic. This is what happens when a sizeable majority don't even participate in the electoral…

No, it's what happens when large numbers of people decide they care about safety and security more than they care about freedom. That doesn't necessarily make it any better, but to attribute this outcome to mindlessness is to badly miss the point. The first step to solving a problem is to understand what the problem actually is.

Re: Feds Walk into a Building and Demand Everyone's Fingerprints to Open Phones

#38

I have to wonder what sort of technical measures could be implemented to make biometric systems as legally secure as passwords while still retaining something like the same convenience. The first thing that comes to mind for me is the Apple patent on recognizing a fingerprint anywhere on the phone's surface, and using that in combination with Android-style lock screen patterns. A lock screen pattern isn't nearly as s…

It has to be speech, since speech is protected. How about 'phrase of the day' to be spoken in conjunction with swipe? [p.s. this should be relatively trivial to roll out in a patch by Apple.]

Political speech is protected.

There may be 4th and 5th amendment arguments, too

Re: Feds Walk into a Building and Demand Everyone's Fingerprints to Open Phones

#39
post #10

This is why my unlock is not tied to biometrics. Once I realized the government can compel you to unlock your phone without a warrant using your fingerprint it became a much less compelling feature. The same for facial recognition.

Do you travel ? In much if not all of Europe not giving your password, even to a random search when passing through (not entering the country), is a crime. Therefore legal advice is to provide custom agents and other police with access to any device upon request and then.

Sources please. Only thing I can think of in the UK, something about forced to unencrypt.

I do not carry a phone though.

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