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Google May Be Stealing Mobile Traffic

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Re: Google May Be Stealing Mobile Traffic

#31

Post by IanCal »

pcl wrote: post #6
visarga wrote: post #3

Well, considering that said traffic originated from Google, and that Google was under no obligation to send it to OP's page, it's a little more nuanced than "stealing". It just means they sent different behaving traffic than usual - traffic that only touches one article and returns to Google. It might discourage webmasters from adopting AMP though, if they have the expectation to lead the visitor to the homepage or o…

I really love the speed of AMP pages, but I don't like the fact that the server request is proxied through Google. This is akin to an ISP injecting their own little optimization toolbar into pages rendered to the user, except that cert pinning isn't even an option here, since Google is doing the content re-writing at the app tier. They even manage to keep the browser security icon green, creating the at-a-glance perc…

> And it would seem that Google goes to good lengths to make the look-and-feel appear browser-like, instead of calling out the cached nature of the response.

Why would a cached website be shown looking different from a non-cached one?

Re: Google May Be Stealing Mobile Traffic

#32

Post by Arnt »

lucaspiller wrote: post #8

The whole idea of AMP seems like it's really the wrong way to solve the problem. If you remove all the third party JavaScript, fonts, large images and "like" buttons you'll have effectively the same. I guess it already messes up ads and analytics (although I'd assume Google's services still work), so what's the problem? Kind of related: I recently switched my blog from Wordpress to Hugo. I found a minimal theme, but…

There's validation, so you can run a checker as part of your deployment routine. Validation and routine checking is great.

I don't understand how validation requires the parts of AMP I dislike, though...

Re: Google May Be Stealing Mobile Traffic

#33

Post by sangnoir »

mSparks wrote: post #29
niftich wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The author is regretfully realizing that in this day and age when so much of the discoverability of the web is dominated by Google, Facebook, and a handful other players, content is a commodity that these gatekeepers compete over for the privilege of serving as entry-points, and with it, getting analytics and ad network data. But on the plus side, it's a free CDN, if you're passionate about your content.

Actually realised last week I hardly use google search anymore. And cant remember the last time i saw - let alone clicked on an ad (clickbait excluded). Not that I've switched to another search provider as much as search isn't the entry point to the internet it once was (especially with no google on tor sites). That techies like me dont rely on them any more and non techies all share stuff via facebook must be hurtin…

> That techies like me dont rely on them any more

You're going to have to cite some data for that bold assertion. Lot's of techies outside of your bubble still use (and rely) on Google.

Re: Google May Be Stealing Mobile Traffic

#34

Post by pcl »

IanCal wrote: post #31
pcl wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really love the speed of AMP pages, but I don't like the fact that the server request is proxied through Google. This is akin to an ISP injecting their own little optimization toolbar into pages rendered to the user, except that cert pinning isn't even an option here, since Google is doing the content re-writing at the app tier. They even manage to keep the browser security icon green, creating the at-a-glance perc…

> And it would seem that Google goes to good lengths to make the look-and-feel appear browser-like, instead of calling out the cached nature of the response. Why would a cached website be shown looking different from a non-cached one?

The fact that it's being served out of Google's servers changes the trust model for the content. End users have no good reason to trust Google with the cached data, but people assign trust to them when they click an AMP link. There's no real indication to an end user that that data is coming out of Google's caches rather than from the content provider. I find that misleading.

Typically, cached web pages come out of edge caches, either maintained by a CDN selected by the content provider, an end-user's ISP, or by a box on the local network. In this case, Google -- the search engine -- is fundamentally changing the nature of how the user obtains the third-party search result content.

IMO this is very different than my company or ISP doing some edge caching. It's different because it is much more of an opt-in sort of relationship, and, more importantly, because it's decentralized -- if Comcast starts to muck with search result content, Verizon users will notice the discrepancy. If Google takes advantage of their monopoly position and alters AMP content, nobody except the content providers will be the wiser.

Re: Google May Be Stealing Mobile Traffic

#35

Post by akerro »

lucaspiller wrote: post #8

The whole idea of AMP seems like it's really the wrong way to solve the problem. If you remove all the third party JavaScript, fonts, large images and "like" buttons you'll have effectively the same. I guess it already messes up ads and analytics (although I'd assume Google's services still work), so what's the problem? Kind of related: I recently switched my blog from Wordpress to Hugo. I found a minimal theme, but…

In the last 5 years there was NO WORDPRESS THEME OR PLUGIN that I didn't have to modify. I never saw any WP theme that comes with minified CSS/JS, handles sidebars correctly - sidebar created after post content, generated by PHP not JS, generates correct tags, even one "modern" theme had links in sidebar with "nofollow"... "SEO-friendly" plugins that make blog generation time 3-5 times longer than before, of course JS not minified, jQuery and fonts linked with ?version=xxxx (prevents server and browser from caching it), social buttons that were downloading ~1MB of scripts and CSS (for Facebook, Twitter, G+ and Pinterest).

Whole WP ecosystem is a huge pile of crap, each plugin adds more and more mess to it. I tried Hugo and Joomla, but they were even worse (Joomla had a few security issues that developers refuse to fix, Hugo was more bloated than WP).

After trying and modifying over 20 acceptable themes I decided to start working on my own blogging platform that will be SEO-friendly and clean.

Re: Google May Be Stealing Mobile Traffic

#37

Post by Aissen »

Actually having the site served from the same, already-open, probably pre-fetched connection, already open browser is great for the user.

It even has the advantage of loading inside the Google App, where no adblocking exists, so it might even be good for publishers.

Yes, there's no discovery if you don't design for that, user will just bounce.

Re: Google May Be Stealing Mobile Traffic

#38

Post by tinus_hn »

visarga wrote: post #3

Well, considering that said traffic originated from Google, and that Google was under no obligation to send it to OP's page, it's a little more nuanced than "stealing". It just means they sent different behaving traffic than usual - traffic that only touches one article and returns to Google. It might discourage webmasters from adopting AMP though, if they have the expectation to lead the visitor to the homepage or o…

Google is not stealing traffic but it is stealing content by displaying it out of the original servers control. The real cost of a website is not hosting it but filling it with things people want to read. Content creators will want to get benefits such as ad revenue to compensate for their effort.

Re: Google May Be Stealing Mobile Traffic

#39

Post by jwarren »

akerro wrote: post #35
lucaspiller wrote: post #8

The whole idea of AMP seems like it's really the wrong way to solve the problem. If you remove all the third party JavaScript, fonts, large images and "like" buttons you'll have effectively the same. I guess it already messes up ads and analytics (although I'd assume Google's services still work), so what's the problem? Kind of related: I recently switched my blog from Wordpress to Hugo. I found a minimal theme, but…

In the last 5 years there was NO WORDPRESS THEME OR PLUGIN that I didn't have to modify. I never saw any WP theme that comes with minified CSS/JS, handles sidebars correctly - sidebar created after post content, generated by PHP not JS, generates correct tags, even one "modern" theme had links in sidebar with "nofollow"... "SEO-friendly" plugins that make blog generation time 3-5 times longer than before, of course J…

I completely agree about most commercially available WP themes... but it's eminently possible (and quite easy) to roll your own very good theme, if you like the WP interface.

Re: Google May Be Stealing Mobile Traffic

#40

Post by marmshallow »

dingo_bat wrote: post #26
gkoberger wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, as a user... I absolutely love AMP. (That being said, I dislike it as a content provider and as someone worried Google has too much power)

That's your experience. In my experience, AMP pages are horrible and I avoid clicking on those.

Why don't you like them as a user? They load extremely quickly and you can scroll through the different AMP pages by simply swiping left or right.
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