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Feds Walk into a Building and Demand Everyone's Fingerprints to Open Phones

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Re: Feds Walk into a Building and Demand Everyone's Fingerprints to Open Phones

#101
post #10

This is why my unlock is not tied to biometrics. Once I realized the government can compel you to unlock your phone without a warrant using your fingerprint it became a much less compelling feature. The same for facial recognition.

They don't even need to compel you. They get your fingerprint in the booking process and then they can reuse it however they please.

Re: Feds Walk into a Building and Demand Everyone's Fingerprints to Open Phones

#102
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's put this in its political context. We are citizens of a constitutional republic . A republic, as far as I understand it, implies that a (thoughtful, responsible, .., elected) minority is afforded the delegated power to legislate, judge, and administer. The 'actual problem' seems to be in the selection/delegation process. The minority that is currently in charge has framed the question as that of "safety and sec…

> A republic, as far as I understand it, implies that a (thoughtful, responsible, .., elected) minority is afforded the delegated power to legislate, judge, and administer. Elected, yes. Thoughtful and responsible depends on your point of view. For example: there is a substantial contingent of people in the U.S. that want the country to be a Christian theocracy. (Most of these people believe that this is how things u…

> The irony is that by blaming the system instead of acknowledging that the outcomes we see are the result of democracy working exactly as intended you are actually contributing to the problem, which is that everyone retreats into their echo chamber and spends their energy vilifying anyone who doesn't agree with them instead of working constructively to figure out how all 7+ billion of us are going to get along on this little planet.

But I am not blaming the system.

I pointed out bad faith actors in the system, which in my view, are contributing to the dysfunction of the process, and have poisoned political discourse in this nation. I don't remember the exact date when we crossed the threshold but do remember noting a somewhat abrupt introduction of extreme vulgarity and uncivility into televised political shows at some point in 90s.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telecommunications_Act_of_1996

The various POVs you mention are noted and point well taken. But were not these strains of thought present in the 80s, 70s, and before? I haven't watched TV in decades, but the few times I am exposed to it by force (visits to family, public spaces, etc.) my skin literally crawls, regardless of which point of view is being voiced. It's like the planet of the vulgarian apes. Don't you think the public that is exposed to this /garbage/ day after day has been conditioned to act in the same manner?

> Likewise, there is a substantial contingent of people who are scared witless at the thought of terrorism, and think that it's worth trading in the odd civil right to insure that terrorists are not "free" to plot our destruction unmolested.

This is the only POV that I find unacceptable. This view -- propagated from on high from -- is the factual "blaming the system". The clear subtext of this manufactured view is that our system is fragile and inadequate in face of enemies and needs corrective measures that alter the very nature of our system. Yes, the people were scared, but it was not the people who pulled the Patriot Act out of God knows where and passed it without even an attempt at deliberation.

They could have been offered other remedies, but were not. They could have been reassured by national leadership that we can prevail without disfiguring our national character, but were not.

Americans torturing and torture shows on cable TV.

Disgraceful.

Re: Feds Walk into a Building and Demand Everyone's Fingerprints to Open Phones

#104
post #30

Duress fingerprints. 'nuff said. Or a configurable timeout, rather than the apparently hard-coded 48 hours. Or ask for a PIN if the phone's radio detects many more other radios in the vicinity than a few minutes ago ("Because you might be under duress, please enter a PIN now.") Or if a phone has been sitting on a flat surface for a while, require a PIN. Or require a PIN if the phone is tapped with a duress code ("Sha…

Touch ID is set to require a passcode after five failed attempts, One could use an unregistered finger or knuckle to intentionally fail the five attempts and force a passcode requirement.

Or just force a shutdown by holding the power button. A passcode is needed on boot.

Re: Feds Walk into a Building and Demand Everyone's Fingerprints to Open Phones

#105
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's put this in its political context. We are citizens of a constitutional republic . A republic, as far as I understand it, implies that a (thoughtful, responsible, .., elected) minority is afforded the delegated power to legislate, judge, and administer. The 'actual problem' seems to be in the selection/delegation process. The minority that is currently in charge has framed the question as that of "safety and sec…

> A republic, as far as I understand it, implies that a (thoughtful, responsible, .., elected) minority is afforded the delegated power to legislate, judge, and administer. Elected, yes. Thoughtful and responsible depends on your point of view. For example: there is a substantial contingent of people in the U.S. that want the country to be a Christian theocracy. (Most of these people believe that this is how things u…

Do you claim here that elections (who votes, where, how often, in what conditions, for whom, for what, etc.) aren't part of "the system"? That probably isn't your intention, but you seem to hold the parenthesized conditions blameless, offering instead some sort of caricature of a Trump voter for criticism. Incidentally, if the participation of all those apparent cretins is "democracy working exactly as intended", how should we characterize previous elections in which they did not take part?

Re: Feds Walk into a Building and Demand Everyone's Fingerprints to Open Phones

#106
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the reality, for sure, but at least you're stripping away the air of respectability, law, and order. When you're whipping someone with a rubber hose, you've made a serious commitment.

" you're stripping away the air of respectability, law, and order." Counterexample popped in my head was parents with a belt asking for iPhone unlocked. Still has respectability, law, and order in most places. I wonder if there are other counterexamples.

If you need to belt your kid to get access to their device, you've already gone well past the fail-state of parenting.

Re: Feds Walk into a Building and Demand Everyone's Fingerprints to Open Phones

#107
post #22

And this is why I don't use my fingerprint, passcode only for me.

I am curious. So... how often are you actually in a situation like that? You know, police with a search warrant. Or, do you feel that there is a reasonable possibility that will happen to you?

Every time I go through customs

Re: Feds Walk into a Building and Demand Everyone's Fingerprints to Open Phones

#108
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My favorite fast response to disarm that is always: that's not up to you [whether or not you have something to hide]. I've found it instantly shakes the false comfort they're trying to derive from their premise and opens up a moment of rethink.

Not for me, I don't even understand your point. Of course it's up to me if I have something to hide. I have nothing on my phone that I wouldn't be perfectly OK with to have printed and displayed in a busy public place. How is it not up to me to decide what details of my life I have to hide?

You may not care about jackbooted thugs in the service of evil politicians, but they care about you.

Re: Feds Walk into a Building and Demand Everyone's Fingerprints to Open Phones

#109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you travel ? In much if not all of Europe not giving your password, even to a random search when passing through (not entering the country), is a crime. Therefore legal advice is to provide custom agents and other police with access to any device upon request and then.

Sources please. Only thing I can think of in the UK, something about forced to unencrypt. I do not carry a phone though.

Wikipedia gives a good summary for each nation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Key_disclosure_law

Re: Feds Walk into a Building and Demand Everyone's Fingerprints to Open Phones

#110
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not for me, I don't even understand your point. Of course it's up to me if I have something to hide. I have nothing on my phone that I wouldn't be perfectly OK with to have printed and displayed in a busy public place. How is it not up to me to decide what details of my life I have to hide?

Easy: Your contact list. You may not care who sees your list, but the people on your contact list would probably be upset if their private email address, cellphone number, chat name, home address and other personal data were exposed to the general public. Ditto any conversation you had with them via text; you may not care who sees the conversation, but your partner/friend/boss may object to having their privately tex…

Do you ever find it ironic that you are trying to combat totalitarian fear-mongering with an argument that in part is literally "think of the children?"
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