The Nobel Prize in Literature 2016 awarded to Bob Dylan • Hacker News Board

Re: The Nobel Prize in Literature 2016 awarded to Bob Dylan

#341

Post by wildmusings » Fri, Oct 14, 2016, 5:06 PM UTC

kefka_p wrote: post #319

barney54 wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is the pro-life position discriminatory against women? The question is one of line drawing of when life begins that needs to be protected. The pro-life position believes that life should be protected earlier than the pro-choice position. That is not discriminatory against women. We are obviously setting side abortion in cases of rape. So the pro-life position is equal in it's belief about women's autonomy over th…

> How is the pro-life position discriminatory against women? In that you don't already comprehend, I doubt I'll be able to aid in your understanding, but here goes nothing. The state allows men to exercise control over their own reproductive systems more completely than women. It really is that simple. Men have all options available e.g. vasectomy, wearing condoms, etc. Women on the other hand see the "party of small…

>If men also could get pregnant, it wouldn't be discriminatory. That the only reproductive control technique to be denied women is a technique only available to women, any laws to restrict such techniques are inherently discriminatory toward women.

This is preposterous logic. Women have the same access to birth control than men do. In fact, as it stands now, the options available to women are vastly superior, i.e. the pill.

The fact that only women can bear children does not make the regulation of abortion "discrimination". Discrimination would be if both sexes could bear children, but only abortion by females was banned.

Do you think that abortion on the day before birth should be legal?

Re: The Nobel Prize in Literature 2016 awarded to Bob Dylan

#342

Post by wildmusings » Fri, Oct 14, 2016, 5:08 PM UTC

andrepd wrote: post #339

wildmusings wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Immigration is a huge issue, and I really thought the GOP was turning the corner on it, but it's all fallen apart since the GOP decided it would rather pander to an angry white base. Amnesty for current illegal immigrants + improved border security and visa enforcement, so that it never happens again, is the obvious answer to the immigration problem. What many people don't know is that the American people were sold…

>the religions are the source of our moral values, even for most of the non-believers among us. I disagree in absolute. In my view religions do far more harm than good, and to claim religious thought is the basis of morality even for non believers is somewhere between condescending and insulting.

I say this as a non-believer myself. I don't mean that modern western atheists are picking up their moral code directly from religions, I'm saying that the secular western moral code largely grew from Christianity.

Anyhow, my broader point is that religions are a source of moral conviction for people. And moral conviction is totally legitimate basis for political conviction.

Re: The Nobel Prize in Literature 2016 awarded to Bob Dylan

#343

Post by breatheoften » Fri, Oct 14, 2016, 5:27 PM UTC

hackuser wrote: post #299

cb18 wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No not really. Going back millennia, there has always been an elite within a society. The difference that is recent to emerge is that there is a growing disconnect between the interests of the elite and the societies to which they supposedly belong. Nationalist vs Globalist is a pretty good summarization. The globalists seem primarily interested in using their positions of power to enrich themselves and gratify their…

There's nothing new about the current 'disconnect' between American elite and others; people pull out the same rhetoric every few years, it seems. And there is no long-term adherence of others to populism (which is being expressed by you as nationalism). It's not a social truth, despite attempts to raise above reproach its horrible behavior and worse consequences, it's just an old political technique used by some pol…

Nicely said -- however I would disagree with the claim that our best achievable society is no longer an experiment. To remove beta status and pretend it is an understood phenomenon leads to thinking like the parent's more so than thinking like the rest of your comment ...

Re: The Nobel Prize in Literature 2016 awarded to Bob Dylan

#344

Post by whiddershins » Fri, Oct 14, 2016, 5:27 PM UTC

BurningFrog wrote: post #229

My main complaint about Dylan is his terrible singing voice. Imagine what could have been if he had swallowed his pride and teamed with a great singer! Of course, this complaint is invalid for a literature prize, so I can only say it's well deserved. Maybe this can open up for film and TV writers to be considered. They're the ones mostly filling the storytelling needs book authors did when Nobel instituted the prize.

I watched this great documentary on Ramblin Jack Ellis, I highly recommended it, and one thing I learned was "singing pretty" was against the aesthetic of that folk movement.

So, no I don't think he should have teamed up with a singer.

Re: The Nobel Prize in Literature 2016 awarded to Bob Dylan

#345

Post by breatheoften » Fri, Oct 14, 2016, 5:43 PM UTC

wildmusings wrote: post #340

andrepd wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>SJWism is a cancer on Western civilization and it's one of the most pressing problems we face, because it prevents us from having honest conversations about any other problem. Debates these days always devolve into accusations of racism/sexism/"ableism", or whatever the latest boogeyman "ism" is. Maybe if you look outside your bubble aka in the internet you can come to realise in the real world this isn't nearly a b…

> Maybe if you look outside your bubble aka in the internet you can come to realise in the real world this isn't nearly a big and widespread of a problem as some people make it out to be. Ah, but it was in meatspace that I became alarmed by them. I saw them ruin my alma mater, go after freedom of association, smear everyone who dared oppose them racist. I saw the spinelessness of leaders who instead of fighting back…

You suggest that the mechanism by which honesty is removed from debate is by dishonest application of a highly sensitive mechanism for measuring social missteps. This does occur in real life scenarios but you are wrong to attribute SJWism as the cause for the lack of honesty in debate. The dishonesty did not get applied to the situation as a result of the existence of social justice causes -- it got added because of the nature of tribal political blocks. Removing social justice issues won't remove the effects of tribal motivations from the debate.

Furthermore, your position is self inconsistent -- any attempt to wield your highly sensitive SJWism sensor will lead to the same variety of dishonesty that you claim of others holding similar sensors for other social topics.

You are right that there are specific instances where tribally motivated groups explicitly misuse social arguments in a way that disadvantages their opponents -- you are wrong to imply that all occurrences of disadvantage based on this pattern are misuse.

Re: The Nobel Prize in Literature 2016 awarded to Bob Dylan

#346

Post by xkaycd » Fri, Oct 14, 2016, 5:57 PM UTC

I know I'm super late to the game, but Neighbourhood Bully is really underappreciated. Great song, great poetry.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=neighbourhood+b...

Re: The Nobel Prize in Literature 2016 awarded to Bob Dylan

#347

Post by dev360 » Fri, Oct 14, 2016, 6:48 PM UTC

hackuser wrote: post #335

dev360 wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> There's a communal, shared, DIY philosophy behind it; it's art by and for regular people (folk art), to be shared; Yes, I agree. I guess I dont see the conflict. If you play any of these songs, change a few verses, some melody and some chords, then you can claim the copyright just like Bob Dylan did. That is what I think he is trying to get at in that speech. Notice how is says the following in his copyright claim…

Thanks for your thoughtful response > I mainly objected to your 'Can I sample one without his permission?' since I don't think its the same thing. I understand your point and I agree that's the reality of it, but I'm saying that isn't how it has to be. It isn't the same thing in some qualitative ways, as you say, but mainly because Dylan chooses to make it different. Like all the FOSS developers, all those Grateful D…

Thats a good point, I agree completely. The whole music business has become very dog-eat-dog :(

Re: The Nobel Prize in Literature 2016 awarded to Bob Dylan

#348

Post by wildmusings » Fri, Oct 14, 2016, 7:19 PM UTC

v64 wrote: post #310

barney54 wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is the pro-life position discriminatory against women? The question is one of line drawing of when life begins that needs to be protected. The pro-life position believes that life should be protected earlier than the pro-choice position. That is not discriminatory against women. We are obviously setting side abortion in cases of rape. So the pro-life position is equal in it's belief about women's autonomy over th…

> The pro-life position believes that life should be protected earlier than the pro-choice position. That is not discriminatory against women. I disagree. I think it's absolutely insulting to say that an unborn, memoryless fetus/embryo/cell cluster has more of a right to life than the living, breathing, self-aware woman its inside. > We are obviously setting side abortion in cases of rape. This isn't obvious. Many co…

>I disagree. I think it's absolutely insulting to say that an unborn, memoryless fetus/embryo/cell cluster has more of a right to life than the living, breathing, self-aware woman its inside.

I think it's telling that instead of defending the core of your position, that abortion should always be allowed, you're falling back to periphery issues, such as what to do when the life of the pregnant woman is threatened by the pregnancy. Many (most?) pro-life people would agree with allowing abortion in such cases, and it's really a sideshow to the main question.

Re: The Nobel Prize in Literature 2016 awarded to Bob Dylan

#349

Post by wildmusings » Fri, Oct 14, 2016, 7:34 PM UTC

breatheoften wrote: post #345

wildmusings wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe if you look outside your bubble aka in the internet you can come to realise in the real world this isn't nearly a big and widespread of a problem as some people make it out to be. Ah, but it was in meatspace that I became alarmed by them. I saw them ruin my alma mater, go after freedom of association, smear everyone who dared oppose them racist. I saw the spinelessness of leaders who instead of fighting back…

You suggest that the mechanism by which honesty is removed from debate is by dishonest application of a highly sensitive mechanism for measuring social missteps. This does occur in real life scenarios but you are wrong to attribute SJWism as the cause for the lack of honesty in debate. The dishonesty did not get applied to the situation as a result of the existence of social justice causes -- it got added because of…

You've attributed a lot to me that I never said. I do not call for a purge of SJWs, as you seem to imply that I do. I'm happy with winning the argument. I see no need to try to ruin people's personal and professional lives.

Re: The Nobel Prize in Literature 2016 awarded to Bob Dylan

#350

Post by v64 » Fri, Oct 14, 2016, 8:01 PM UTC

wildmusings wrote: post #348

v64 wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The pro-life position believes that life should be protected earlier than the pro-choice position. That is not discriminatory against women. I disagree. I think it's absolutely insulting to say that an unborn, memoryless fetus/embryo/cell cluster has more of a right to life than the living, breathing, self-aware woman its inside. > We are obviously setting side abortion in cases of rape. This isn't obvious. Many co…

> I disagree. I think it's absolutely insulting to say that an unborn, memoryless fetus/embryo/cell cluster has more of a right to life than the living, breathing, self-aware woman its inside. I think it's telling that instead of defending the core of your position, that abortion should always be allowed, you're falling back to periphery issues, such as what to do when the life of the pregnant woman is threatened by…

What I'm saying is that no matter what, a woman gets the final say over what happens to the undeveloped fetus that's inside of her. At the extreme end of that position, if one of them has to die, the woman gets to make the choice who, not the fetus, not the state. But even if the woman's life isn't at risk, the choice should still be her's.

> Many (most?) pro-life people would agree with allowing abortion in such cases

It doesn't matter, because they are many more who want to ban it entirely. Many religions, such as the Catholic Church, teach that there are no circumstances in which abortion is acceptable. Women have died in Catholic hospitals because of this doctrine. If we say some abortions are allowed, and some aren't, then we're politicizing what should be a medical decision between a woman and her doctor.