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A Man Who Stood Up To Facebook

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Re: A Man Who Stood Up To Facebook

#21

Post by kazinator »

deckar01 wrote: post #8
treve wrote: post #6

> "The word spam is kind of like calling someone a rapist. It has — in [the] digital world — calling someone a spammer is the worst thing you could possibly call them." I really don't feel that spammer and rapist are even in the same league.

It's not the same, but it is a powerful metaphor. Wanted email is to consensual relations as spam is to physical violation.

It's a very bad metaphor, because the "spammer" term is thrown around casually in IT and is often false. For instance, someone might be called a "spammer" if they post a lot to some forum, by someone else who disagrees with them.

If you equate "rapist" with "spammer", you might be regarded as trivializing "rapist" accusations as being usually false and frivolous in the same way.

Re: A Man Who Stood Up To Facebook

#22

Post by delecti »

matt4077 wrote: post #9
treve wrote: post #6

> "The word spam is kind of like calling someone a rapist. It has — in [the] digital world — calling someone a spammer is the worst thing you could possibly call them." I really don't feel that spammer and rapist are even in the same league.

They are not and he wasn't talking about the magnitude of moral failure I think, but how it provokes an instinctual mistrust of the accused, more than other accusations.

I don't think that's a remotely fair comparison either. I'm immensely more likely to respond with instinctual mistrust at an accused rapist than at an accused spammer. So much so that I don't think they're in the same league there either.

Re: A Man Who Stood Up To Facebook

#23

Post by zanethomas »

meichenf wrote: post #19
zanethomas wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why not?

Be civil. Don't say things you wouldn't say in a face-to-face conversation. Avoid gratuitous negativity. When disagreeing, please reply to the argument instead of calling names. E.g. "That is idiotic; 1 + 1 is 2, not 3" can be shortened to "1 + 1 is 2, not 3." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

I would say it to his face, but point taken. :)

Re: A Man Who Stood Up To Facebook

#24

Post by szx »

So you own your data but they won't let just any app touch it. Apps need to comply with certain conditions and FB retains complete control.

Where it gets interesting is when someone like this guy tries to circumvent this arrangement by having the user willingly supply them with their credentials.

FB would never blame the user, even though that's arguably the correct way to respond, because that's a PR disaster. Whether the guy in this particular story seems shady or not, it seems inevitable that FB would take the path of litigation to destroy anyone who exposes the dissonance in the way they run their business.

Re: A Man Who Stood Up To Facebook

#25

Post by Retric »

kazinator wrote: post #21
deckar01 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not the same, but it is a powerful metaphor. Wanted email is to consensual relations as spam is to physical violation.

It's a very bad metaphor, because the "spammer" term is thrown around casually in IT and is often false. For instance, someone might be called a "spammer" if they post a lot to some forum, by someone else who disagrees with them. If you equate "rapist" with "spammer", you might be regarded as trivializing "rapist" accusations as being usually false and frivolous in the same way.

Spammers steal life a few seconds at a time.

Considering the amount of time wasted they literally waste lifetimes in aggregate. However, we don't equate say deaths from pollution as murder so it feels like a minor crime.

Re: A Man Who Stood Up To Facebook

#26

Post by DanBC »

deckar01 wrote: post #8
treve wrote: post #6

> "The word spam is kind of like calling someone a rapist. It has — in [the] digital world — calling someone a spammer is the worst thing you could possibly call them." I really don't feel that spammer and rapist are even in the same league.

It's not the same, but it is a powerful metaphor. Wanted email is to consensual relations as spam is to physical violation.

It's a fucking stupid metaphor that acts as a barrier to understanding.

People should stop casually making jokes about rape[1] or using rape as a metaphor.

[1] It's baffling to me that crimes of sexual violence are a common theme for jokes on US media.

Re: A Man Who Stood Up To Facebook

#27

Post by jsprogrammer »

CapitalistCartr wrote: post #13

Orin Kerr is the country's leading attorney on Computer Crime Law(1) and The Volokh Conspiracy writers are a powerhouse in Constitutional Law generally. Its almost certainly too late for Vachani and Power Ventures; Facebook have destroyed them, and any ruling is only symbolic, but for the rest of us, a correct ruling is essential for the future of a free Internet. Here is Orin Kerr writing about Power Ventures: https…

Power Ventures could probably start back up from the payout that will be coming from FB when things are resolved.

Re: A Man Who Stood Up To Facebook

#28

Post by Sacho »

jsprogrammer wrote: post #27
CapitalistCartr wrote: post #13

Orin Kerr is the country's leading attorney on Computer Crime Law(1) and The Volokh Conspiracy writers are a powerhouse in Constitutional Law generally. Its almost certainly too late for Vachani and Power Ventures; Facebook have destroyed them, and any ruling is only symbolic, but for the rest of us, a correct ruling is essential for the future of a free Internet. Here is Orin Kerr writing about Power Ventures: https…

Power Ventures could probably start back up from the payout that will be coming from FB when things are resolved.

Uh, what payout? The 9th circuit essentially ruled that his attempts to access Facebook servers after the cease-and-desist letter were illegal. Unless I'm reading this wrong, he lost, and is criminally liable.

Re: A Man Who Stood Up To Facebook

#29

Post by CapitalistCartr »

Sacho wrote: post #28
jsprogrammer wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Power Ventures could probably start back up from the payout that will be coming from FB when things are resolved.

Uh, what payout? The 9th circuit essentially ruled that his attempts to access Facebook servers after the cease-and-desist letter were illegal. Unless I'm reading this wrong, he lost, and is criminally liable.

Its resolved when SCOTUS rules, but I don't hold high hopes. I think a payout is unlikely, and anything much beyond legal fees is in lottery territory.

Re: A Man Who Stood Up To Facebook

#30

Post by paulddraper »

ht85 wrote: post #18
paulddraper wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, spam is more akin to door-to-door soliciting.

Yeah, only door-to-door soliciting to a point where you have to jostle a crowd of people whenever you try to exit your property through the main door, and they try everything in their power not to budge.

> try everything in their power not to budge

The first part I get, but this I don't.

Deleting an email is a mouseclick. A lot easier than getting the pest control guy off my doorstep.

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