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The Nobel Prize in Literature 2016 awarded to Bob Dylan

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Re: The Nobel Prize in Literature 2016 awarded to Bob Dylan

#301

Post by 99_00 »

fitzwatermellow wrote: post #82

Totally 100% well deserved. Just imagine the 13 year old out there discovering "Masters of War" or "Idiot Wind" for the first time today. Their entire point of view is about to change. Mind upon to hitherto unknowable vistas. Ergo, the absolute benchmark of what Great Literature strives to embody. Also worth checking out is Dylan's controversial speech upon receiving the the MusiCares Person of the Year 2015 award. I…

There are plenty of prices for excellence in young adult literature. The noble price shouldn't be one of them.

Re: The Nobel Prize in Literature 2016 awarded to Bob Dylan

#302

Post by wildmusings »

johncip wrote: post #291
wildmusings wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Immigration is a huge issue, and I really thought the GOP was turning the corner on it, but it's all fallen apart since the GOP decided it would rather pander to an angry white base. Amnesty for current illegal immigrants + improved border security and visa enforcement, so that it never happens again, is the obvious answer to the immigration problem. What many people don't know is that the American people were sold…

> The Democrats were happy to keep importing voters I think it's important not to discount the difficulty of securing the border because of the size of it. And as you mention, American companies (like Smithfield) are happy to create incentives for border hopping because they can use the threat of calling INS to keep wages low and prevent unions from forming. The problem with the idea of widespread voting fraud is the…

I'm not talking about fraudulent voting by illegal immigrants, I'm talking about the fact that they eventually become citizens when amnesty rolls around, and their kids become citizens automatically by birthright.

Re: The Nobel Prize in Literature 2016 awarded to Bob Dylan

#303

Post by enneff »

mynameishere wrote: post #240
fitzwatermellow wrote: post #82

Totally 100% well deserved. Just imagine the 13 year old out there discovering "Masters of War" or "Idiot Wind" for the first time today. Their entire point of view is about to change. Mind upon to hitherto unknowable vistas. Ergo, the absolute benchmark of what Great Literature strives to embody. Also worth checking out is Dylan's controversial speech upon receiving the the MusiCares Person of the Year 2015 award. I…

I was probably 13 or so when I bought a "Freewheelin Bob Dylan" cassette out of a bargain bin for maybe a dollar. I thought then, and think now, that "Masters of War" was embarrassingly juvenile. I mean, come on: And I hope that you die And your death’ll come soon I will follow your casket In the pale afternoon And I’ll watch while you’re lowered Down to your deathbed And I’ll stand o’er your grave Til I’m sure that…

"Suicide is Painless" is a great song.

Re: The Nobel Prize in Literature 2016 awarded to Bob Dylan

#304

Post by cderwin »

v64 wrote: post #241
wildmusings wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Republican Party failed to field a credible candidate that spoke to Middle America. They, too, were blinded by the elite bubble. Trump saw the weakness and jumped on it.

The Republican Party has failed to field a credible candidate for quite some time. If you believe in science and equal rights for women and minorities, those damn "elites" are all we have.

For what it's worth, most HNers would be considered part of the "elite" (college-educated, a good portion have graduate degrees, employed and in the top 10% of the income bracket) by most people out there. So it makes sense that people on HN would support the policy of other elites in general.

Re: The Nobel Prize in Literature 2016 awarded to Bob Dylan

#305

Post by cb18 »

jxramos wrote: post #295
v64 wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you missed the point of my analogy on abortion. Let's say there's someone you know who's going to die in 24 hours if she doesn't get a kidney transplant. She's too far down on the list to get one in that timeframe. Out of all the people she knows that have been tested, you're the only one who's a match. If you donate your kidney, she lives. If you don't donate your kidney, she dies. Either way, the government…

Just want to throw this out there for folks who don't realize the origins of this argument: Google "Judith Jarvis Thomson violinist critique"

Thanks for providing that.

Thomson grants for the sake of argument that the fetus has a right to life

Thomson says, abortion does not violate the fetus's legitimate rights, but merely deprives the fetus of something—the use of the pregnant woman's body and life-support functions—to which it has no right. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Defense_of_Abortion

This has a real sleaziness to it. Her argumentation is to separate into two, something that cannot logically be separated.

It's like saying you have a "right to breathe all you want from our oxygen rich biosphere," ... while in outer space.

I'll say this again, because it has just struck me so strongly, and it is so strange. What is it about our society that we have people so passionately arguing for killing off our progeny?

Re: The Nobel Prize in Literature 2016 awarded to Bob Dylan

#306

Post by dexterdog »

kurthr wrote: post #293
dexterdog wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it? Tell me what has objectively improved for blacks in the last 8 years.

Wow... that's an easy one, but since you asked. Black US unemployment went from 15% (peaking at 16% a year later) in 2008 back down to 9.1% in 2016 (close to the 2007 pre-recession low). http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t02.htm http://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2011/ted_20111005.htm I encourage your fact based discovery of the economic condition of this country and it's citizens. Alternatively, we can all live in tot…

Black unemployment peaked at 16 when the national rate was 10. It dropped to 9.1 when the national rate is 5 so blacks did significantly worse than society as a whole.

Re: The Nobel Prize in Literature 2016 awarded to Bob Dylan

#307

Post by barney54 »

v64 wrote: post #256
wildmusings wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mitt Romney was a very good candidate, except for his ultimate lack of fight. If you really believe that women and minorities don't have equal rights, then I can only urge you to dig a little deeper. Gender wage discrimination is a made-up problem, the statistics that you hear don't control for career choice, hours-worked, positions-sought, etc. The problem with our police force is that it's not professionalized once…

I agree with you, Romney has been relatively much more sane than other Republicans. I would have even voted for him if he was able to run as Massachusetts Governor Romney and not Pandering to the Insane Right Wing Romney. But he's certainly an outlier among the present class of Republicans. I think the Republican Party's pro-life position to be discriminatory against women. No one can force you to be an organ donor.…

How is the pro-life position discriminatory against women? The question is one of line drawing of when life begins that needs to be protected. The pro-life position believes that life should be protected earlier than the pro-choice position. That is not discriminatory against women.

We are obviously setting side abortion in cases of rape. So the pro-life position is equal in it's belief about women's autonomy over their bodies. It's only that the pro-life position believe the fetus should be proetect earlier the women's autonomy over her body is equally protected.

Re: The Nobel Prize in Literature 2016 awarded to Bob Dylan

#308

Post by 77pt77 »

efuquen wrote: post #143
ekianjo wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The rebel became part of the institution in the end. Somewhat sad if you ask me.

I think Dylan would never have called himself a 'rebel' to begin with. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guOaI6_cF10

This should be a textbook example of the halo effect.

Re: The Nobel Prize in Literature 2016 awarded to Bob Dylan

#309

Post by v64 »

cb18 wrote: post #282
jacquesm wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you spend long enough looking at a problem you'll realize that there are a lot more 'edge cases' than there are 'normal' ones. Nobody undergoes an abortion for fun.

But if you're solving/addressing a problem efficiently, you should work out a solution where the event space can be mapped such that events classed 'typical' should far outnumber events classed 'edge.' Yes it's never going to be perfect when trying to overlay a closed system of logic on the open system that is the universe, but we've shown ourselves pretty capable at getting to good enough. In this case it is a quest…

> I'll repeat: What is it about our society that compels women to do this?

I don't think society has much to do with it. Pregnancy is an incredible ordeal for a woman to go through. Not only does it drastically change a woman's body, sometimes permanently, but it's also a process the woman has to endure for nine months. I don't see how it's surprising at all that this is something some percentage of women simply don't want to endure at all.

If you want to look at societal factors, I think a major one is that when an unwanted pregnancy occurs, the man is the one who has the ability to walk away. Faced with 18 years of single parenthood or an abortion that can reset everything to how it was before the pregnancy, the latter is the better option.

Some people say abortion is morally reprehensible. But like religion, I think your morality is a personal issue. If you're against abortion, then when you get pregnant, you're free to keep the child. If you're religious, pray for them. But in a free country, I don't believe you can make that choice for others. Homosexuality, interracial marriage, women not wanting to have children, these are all things that some group has argued as immoral at some point in history, but society has progressed. I hope abortion will progress similarly.

Re: The Nobel Prize in Literature 2016 awarded to Bob Dylan

#310

Post by v64 »

barney54 wrote: post #307
v64 wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you, Romney has been relatively much more sane than other Republicans. I would have even voted for him if he was able to run as Massachusetts Governor Romney and not Pandering to the Insane Right Wing Romney. But he's certainly an outlier among the present class of Republicans. I think the Republican Party's pro-life position to be discriminatory against women. No one can force you to be an organ donor.…

How is the pro-life position discriminatory against women? The question is one of line drawing of when life begins that needs to be protected. The pro-life position believes that life should be protected earlier than the pro-choice position. That is not discriminatory against women. We are obviously setting side abortion in cases of rape. So the pro-life position is equal in it's belief about women's autonomy over th…

> The pro-life position believes that life should be protected earlier than the pro-choice position. That is not discriminatory against women.

I disagree. I think it's absolutely insulting to say that an unborn, memoryless fetus/embryo/cell cluster has more of a right to life than the living, breathing, self-aware woman its inside.

> We are obviously setting side abortion in cases of rape.

This isn't obvious. Many conservatives believe abortion should be universally disallowed, including pregnancies resulting from rape.

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