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Facebook Has Repeatedly Trended Fake News Since Firing Its Human Editors

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Re: Facebook Has Repeatedly Trended Fake News Since Firing Its Human Editors

#291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you prove that you believe something?

It's hard to fake an IAT. https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/education.html

Is it? I believe it's rather easy actually.

Re: Facebook Has Repeatedly Trended Fake News Since Firing Its Human Editors

#292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is extremely obvious if you are non-partisan. Right now, there are huge issues about Clinton just released by wikileaks[0] she said that she has a "public position" and a "private position" to placate a room full of bankers (Read: Hey guys I won't really do any of that Bernie Sanders stuff, I'm just saying it for votes) CNN's top story: Trump said "grab her in the pussy" in 2005 [0] http://www.washingtontimes.co…

One of the Wikileaks "scandals" in this article is that Hillary Clinton advocates "a hemispheric common market with open trade and open borders". Scandal? Come on, that's not a scandal, that a policy position. Personally, I agree with free trade in general, so I'm not scandalized by this "revelation" one bit.

>Scandal? Come on, that's not a scandal, that a policy position.

That is pretty clearly an endorsement for TPP (other leaks make this connection more obvious[0]). Hillary says she is not in favor of it, this seems to directly contradict that statement. Saying one thing behind closed doors and another in front of the voting public is a scandal to me.

[0]http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/oct/12/leaked-email...

Re: Facebook Has Repeatedly Trended Fake News Since Firing Its Human Editors

#293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is extremely obvious if you are non-partisan. Right now, there are huge issues about Clinton just released by wikileaks[0] she said that she has a "public position" and a "private position" to placate a room full of bankers (Read: Hey guys I won't really do any of that Bernie Sanders stuff, I'm just saying it for votes) CNN's top story: Trump said "grab her in the pussy" in 2005 [0] http://www.washingtontimes.co…

One of the Wikileaks "scandals" in this article is that Hillary Clinton advocates "a hemispheric common market with open trade and open borders". Scandal? Come on, that's not a scandal, that a policy position. Personally, I agree with free trade in general, so I'm not scandalized by this "revelation" one bit.

Yes, "a hemispheric common market with open trade and open borders" is a policy position - one she really wants to convince voters, especially Saunders supporters, that she doesn't hold. Whilst simultaneously convincing businesses who'd benefit from it that she does. Also, trade is already pretty damn free, which means that free trade agreements end up being largely about loosening safety standards, tightening IP laws, and other such measures that benefit big businesses over consumers.

Re: Facebook Has Repeatedly Trended Fake News Since Firing Its Human Editors

#294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This raises the really interesting point that news doesn't have a post mortem process. It would be a very interesting experiment to, say, revisit a sampling of top stories at some interval (say 3-6 months) and compare the reported facts ( and omissions ) with the actual reality. From such elements as "did names and places get accurately reported?" to "was the underlying narrative correct?". Quotes and attributions mi…

> This raises the really interesting point that news doesn't have a post mortem process. Great idea, and what higher education should be doing for research. Generally there's no process. But personal experience is that whenever I have been involved in a situation about which news has been made, the outcome has always been that the reporting is somewhat sloppy, inaccurate, and agenda-driven. This is with so-called rep…

I need to think myself on just what metrics ought be used. I find, for example, looking at fact-checking efforts, that the focus is often at too fine a level of detail. That by focusing minutely on facts, the big-picture accuracy (narrative) is often lost.

The question of how to deal with missing narrative or omitted detail is also huge. There are efforts underway in that regard, usually in the legal field. The Innocence Project would be an example.

I can think of a great deal of follow-up to the 2003 Iraq invasion which have turned up since, and in particular numerous instances of people caught blatently lying.

The public though seems mostly to move on. I feel that's a mistake.

Re: Facebook Has Repeatedly Trended Fake News Since Firing Its Human Editors

#295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the Wikileaks "scandals" in this article is that Hillary Clinton advocates "a hemispheric common market with open trade and open borders". Scandal? Come on, that's not a scandal, that a policy position. Personally, I agree with free trade in general, so I'm not scandalized by this "revelation" one bit.

>Scandal? Come on, that's not a scandal, that a policy position. That is pretty clearly an endorsement for TPP (other leaks make this connection more obvious[0]). Hillary says she is not in favor of it, this seems to directly contradict that statement. Saying one thing behind closed doors and another in front of the voting public is a scandal to me. [0] http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/oct/12/leaked-email...

It is well known that Hillary Clinton was defending TPP as late as last year (and the "hemispheric common market" comment comes from 2013 -- http://fortune.com/2016/10/11/clinton-wikileaks/).

It is also well known that Hillary Clinton has sort-of kind-of changed her position in response to the Bernie Sanders left pull.

Yes, in my personal opinion it's probably not a strong pull, and Sanders voters who feel strongly against free trade / TPP / etc. are justified in feeling suspicious. But a speech from 2013 when she was openly promoting it doesn't exactly tell too much.

Re: Facebook Has Repeatedly Trended Fake News Since Firing Its Human Editors

#296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This raises the really interesting point that news doesn't have a post mortem process. It would be a very interesting experiment to, say, revisit a sampling of top stories at some interval (say 3-6 months) and compare the reported facts ( and omissions ) with the actual reality. From such elements as "did names and places get accurately reported?" to "was the underlying narrative correct?". Quotes and attributions mi…

That would be wonderful! I hope you're fireproof though, because that would make a lot of people very angry. Not to disabuse you, because I do think it is a good idea, but many people are simply not interested in asking the right questions. I used to belong to a millennial cult which had formerly been proven wrong about 'The End of the World' half a dozen times in the 20th century, and each time they decide the past…

Pity you're downvoted here, as you're raising some good points.

Yes, the activity would be quite incendiary, though that's somewhat the case for the news as it is. There is Project Censored, at Sonoma State University in California, which looks at under-reported stories.

Cults and their own belief systems is a whole 'nother fascinating area. Have you written on your own experiences on this?

On questions and answers I also agree -- I think we're pursuing a lot of the wrong questions, and the answers to the wrong questions are simply meaningless. I'm looking for a few good questions: https://redd.it/1v052g

Assessing narrative means some way of scoring a narrative. That's an interesting problem in itself.

On your "Matrix" example: I'm convinced that one of the key fundamentals of an accurate model of the universe (e.g., a true or useful narrative) is that your different perceptions all tend to correspond. It's when you're getting different messages in different places, or from different sources, that you've got a problem.

Mind, there are circumstances in which there is no one true narrative -- optical illusions such as the Necker cube, "dancing lady" illusion, or the rabbit-duck picture come to mind. But there's a huge realm in which a fairly accurate understanding is possible.

Re: Facebook Has Repeatedly Trended Fake News Since Firing Its Human Editors

#297
post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't vote but the media bias against Trump is absolutely ridiculous. Makes me question everything I've read from the news. False story after story. Clinton campaigns Wikileaks emails confirm a vast media collaboration campaign to smear Trump and avoid negative Clinton stories. Considering Greenwalt: October 11 2016, Glenn Greenwald: In the Democratic Echo Chamber, Inconvenient Truths Are Recast as Putin Plots http…

> False story after story. What is false?

Clinton & Media narrative that Trump is ‘crazy racist’ is completely fabricated[0]. You can find it from the Wikileaks as well.

[0]http://blog.dilbert.com/post/146605145036/persuasion-update-...

Re: Facebook Has Repeatedly Trended Fake News Since Firing Its Human Editors

#298
post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> False story after story. What is false?

Clinton & Media narrative that Trump is ‘crazy racist’ is completely fabricated[0]. You can find it from the Wikileaks as well. [0] http://blog.dilbert.com/post/146605145036/persuasion-update-...

I have no problem calling Trump a racist thanks to his very first speech in the race calling Mexicans rapists and drug dealers. Followed up by the thoughtful idea of banning all Muslims from entering the USA and that anyone from Syria shouldn't be allowed to enter the country.

Re: Facebook Has Repeatedly Trended Fake News Since Firing Its Human Editors

#299
post #34

Thank god someone is writing about this. Recently I've been on the Yahoo's homepage a lot, because of Fantasy Football, and I noticed that a lot of the content is exactly like the article says, fake news from right-wing propaganda sites. And no, this is not me expressing my liberal bias. It's one thing to have opinionated headlines like the Huffington Post, it's another thing to have a completely fictional headline c…

Here's Glenn Greenwald, who can hardly be accused of being right-wing or a Trump supporter, on media bias: The U.S. media is essentially 100 percent united, vehemently, against Trump, and preventing him from being elected president. I don’t have an actual problem with that because I share the premises on which it is based about why he poses such extreme dangers. But that doesn’t mean that as a journalist, or even jus…

When you block quote the text like that it is a pain in the kidney to read on mobile.

Just use asterisks around text. Block quote is intended for code to retain formatting.

Re: Facebook Has Repeatedly Trended Fake News Since Firing Its Human Editors

#300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>And Huff constantly publishes stories telling gender doesn't exist. They definitely don't do this. It seems like you have a significant misunderstanding of the literature being discussed. >Look mate I'm not interested in arguing who is more wrong. No, it's about who is wrong _more often_ and who reports fake stories _more often_. When the standard for one set of sources is consistently absurdly low then you can't ju…

So your standard for trustworthy news is an outlet that is wrong "less often" than their competition you likely already dislike?

I definitely didn't say anything remotely like that, so I'm really not sure how to respond to this. I'm really tired of the one-off pedantic and disingenuous posts people seem to be okay with posting on these topics.

In the context of facebook "censoring" conservative media outlets, there's an observable trend that major conservative news sources are more apt to post false or misleading content that tickle's their audiences expectations, than it is for major liberal sources.

This is an observable trend. Take something as scientifically sound as global warming or evolution. Fox News or Breitbart will consistently misreport on these issues, just to be in harmony with the overall conservative narrative in the U.S. It is highly unlikely you will find equivalent liberal sources that do anything remotely like that. Liberal sources are not perfect nor are they immune from criticism. It's just _more_ likely that an editor will find reason to deny a story from a conservative source than a liberal one. Again, this doesn't seem like a problem for facebook to solve by removing editors, it seems like a problem conservatives should strive to fix.

No news source is going to be perfect. They're never going to report everything accurately, and sometimes they might jump the gun to just get a story out. But there is a line when you can consistently observe a set of news sources being dishonest, or even worse, malevolent.

With all this mind, keep in mind the stories that were falsely trending. It's coming from the same set of sources, with the same political idealogies that Facebook got lambasted for "censoring." You have to be blatantly ignoring what's going on at this point to admit that maybe, just maybe, the problem wasn't with the editors.

And as a side note, I really have never labeled myself one way or another, but I've found over the years I'm consistently labeled as a "liberal" so I've picked it up. The only thing I've ever done is looked at the evidence, been skeptical about claims, and tried my best to form opinions around an ever revolving set of information. If that means my opinions happen to be more consistently liberal than conservative then so be it, but screaming "bias" just because one side of the U.S. political spectrum consistently has absurdly low standards is the worst kind of false equivalency.

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