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How One 19-Year-Old Illinois Man Is Distorting National Polling Averages

nytimes.com

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Re: How One 19-Year-Old Illinois Man Is Distorting National Polling Averages

#31

Nate Silver at 538 talks about the whole dissecting polls deal, or "unskewing" them. All polls must make methodological choices, and all of those choices have advantages and disadvantages. Spending a lot of time trying to dissect those choices and passing judgment on them is not as productive as: 1. Looking at aggregates of lots of polls. 2. Looking at the variance that a poll captures from one iteration of it to ano…

> so he has a dog in this fight.

I don't understand this criticism. Usually when people bring this sort of thing up, they have a specific criticism in mind (e.g., Exxon Mobil on global warming): they have identified an opinion that is sufficiently, demonstrably, wrong, and then they go looking for a reason how someone might get it wrong, so one conclusion might be is "having a dog in the fight". But the logical chain here goes one way: first you demonstrate that they are wrong, then you ask why.

But what's wrong with someone working with polls in a professional sense, expressing an opinion on best practices in polling and statistics? After all, stuff that Silver writes about is quite consistent with stuff other people write about.

It should, at least in principle, be possible to address the relative merits of polling methodologies objectively, and people like Silver, and Andrew Gelman too (see his blog, in particular the xbox poststratification paper and the more recent differential nonresponse paper discussions), seem to be trying to do just that. But anyone professionally studying polls is going to have some kind of a dog in the fight, in the end. It seems hard to conclude anything based only on that.

Re: How One 19-Year-Old Illinois Man Is Distorting National Polling Averages

#33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure I get why they bracketed the age group so small as 18–21 vs the broader census definition.

I don't get why the bracketed the age group at all. Surely you can just estimate the distribution?

You don't really need to estimate the distribution of ages; the electoral roll and the census will give you a distribution with an error that is several orders of magnitude small than the sampling error from the poll. For all intents and purposes the electoral roll and census data is so close to reality that you might as well declare it as such for calculations.

Re: How One 19-Year-Old Illinois Man Is Distorting National Polling Averages

#34

Nate Silver at 538 talks about the whole dissecting polls deal, or "unskewing" them. All polls must make methodological choices, and all of those choices have advantages and disadvantages. Spending a lot of time trying to dissect those choices and passing judgment on them is not as productive as: 1. Looking at aggregates of lots of polls. 2. Looking at the variance that a poll captures from one iteration of it to ano…

He's written about this poll specifically: http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/election-update-leave-th...

Re: How One 19-Year-Old Illinois Man Is Distorting National Polling Averages

#35

Nate Silver at 538 talks about the whole dissecting polls deal, or "unskewing" them. All polls must make methodological choices, and all of those choices have advantages and disadvantages. Spending a lot of time trying to dissect those choices and passing judgment on them is not as productive as: 1. Looking at aggregates of lots of polls. 2. Looking at the variance that a poll captures from one iteration of it to ano…

His dog won pretty handily in the last election, though. It's not an exact science, but his methodology seemed to eliminate a fair amount of doubt from the equation.

I think it will be really interesting to see what happens in election forecasting if Trump wins this election -- doubly so if there's no major scandal for Clinton between now and election day.

Re: How One 19-Year-Old Illinois Man Is Distorting National Polling Averages

#36
post #5

This is really fascinating. I get why the poll creators made these decisions, but the results of the weighting lead to a ridiculous result compared to other polls. Supposedly this poll was extremely accurate in 2012, so who knows?

Then the poll creators made bad decisions. Even with transparency there's no reason why a poll can't be constructed specifically to heavily favor a particular candidate which it seems is just the case. It's very humorous when Trump cites this poll considering what an outlier of civilized humanity he is. Matches nicely.

I thought this was a place where people discussed technology and society, not cheap petty name calling of a national candidate we don't like. @dang can you please block this user?

Re: How One 19-Year-Old Illinois Man Is Distorting National Polling Averages

#37
I'm not sure if he doesn't know his role, and I'm curious how tracking polls like this try to account for the large media attention paid to the poll and its methodology. This guy is known to stats nerds, and they've been tracking his moves and (rather mean-spiritedly) calling him "Carlton" for a while now.

Re: How One 19-Year-Old Illinois Man Is Distorting National Polling Averages

#39

Nate Silver at 538 talks about the whole dissecting polls deal, or "unskewing" them. All polls must make methodological choices, and all of those choices have advantages and disadvantages. Spending a lot of time trying to dissect those choices and passing judgment on them is not as productive as: 1. Looking at aggregates of lots of polls. 2. Looking at the variance that a poll captures from one iteration of it to ano…

His dog won pretty handily in the last election, though. It's not an exact science, but his methodology seemed to eliminate a fair amount of doubt from the equation.

Nate Tin did eventually publish a post [0] outlining that his way off predictions (sub 2% at one point) [1] of the R. primaries were terribly affected by his bias. That was honourable of him to admit. Presumably he is trying to eliminate that bias going forward for the main event.

[0] http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-i-acted-like-a-pundi...

[1] https://i.sli.mg/hF2vOz.jpg

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