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Apple removes Scratch from iPad/iPhone/iTouch

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Re: Apple removes Scratch from iPad/iPhone/iTouch

#31

Post by raganwald »

angumagu wrote: post #17
raganwald wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Build for free software platforms like Linux or the Web and these issues go away. Being outraged at Apple policies when the web is free is like being outraged at your employer when you are free to start your own business.

"Free" is a term that always benefits from definition. How free am I to start my own business? Well, that depends on relative power, and how precarious my financial situation is, my debt load, my family responsibilities, and other things. It's not just a simple question of "is it physically possible?" I'm not sure how directly applicable that critique is to the analogy, except to say that I am well within my rights t…

"Free" is a term that always benefits from definition. How free am I to start my own business? Well, that depends on relative power, and how precarious my financial situation is, my debt load, my family responsibilities, and other things. It's not just a simple question of "is it physically possible?"

I don't have a point to make, but it is interesting that we are both far more free to start our own businesses than we are to develop iPhone applications in Flash.

Re: Apple removes Scratch from iPad/iPhone/iTouch

#32

Post by abstractbill »

acon wrote: post #29
abstractbill wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It just occurred to me you officially cannot make an iPhone app that displays PDF documents - because rendering a PDF involves interpreting a program written in the PostScript programming language ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PostScript#The_language ).

No. PDFs only uses the PostScript imaging model, not the PostScript programming language.

Ah, interesting - I always though PDF was just a superset of PostScript, but it looks like you are correct: http://www.adobe.com/print/features/psvspdf/

Re: Apple removes Scratch from iPad/iPhone/iTouch

#33

Post by bad_user »

abstractbill wrote: post #25
fierarul wrote: post #14

Next up "Etch A Sketch"-like iApps will be banned since the viewers will interpret de data from the server and display other users' sketches. God forbid you use JSON to communicate with the server in your app and parse it yourself, that's too close to Javascript-parsing and you can only use the approved Javascript interpreter for that. It's starting to look a bit like a joke. Yeah, of course, typing this on my MacBoo…

It just occurred to me you officially cannot make an iPhone app that displays PDF documents - because rendering a PDF involves interpreting a program written in the PostScript programming language ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PostScript#The_language ).

PDFs generated by Adobe Acrobat have Javascript in them (for forms mostly). You are free to not interpret it though.

Re: Apple removes Scratch from iPad/iPhone/iTouch

#34

Post by naz »

abstractbill wrote: post #25
fierarul wrote: post #14

Next up "Etch A Sketch"-like iApps will be banned since the viewers will interpret de data from the server and display other users' sketches. God forbid you use JSON to communicate with the server in your app and parse it yourself, that's too close to Javascript-parsing and you can only use the approved Javascript interpreter for that. It's starting to look a bit like a joke. Yeah, of course, typing this on my MacBoo…

It just occurred to me you officially cannot make an iPhone app that displays PDF documents - because rendering a PDF involves interpreting a program written in the PostScript programming language ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PostScript#The_language ).

You can render PDFs in a Webkit view.

Re: Apple removes Scratch from iPad/iPhone/iTouch

#35

Post by endergen »

This is not exactly what Alan Kay hoped for when he talked about the iPhone foreshadowing the iPad:

"When the Mac first came out, Newsweek asked me what I [thought] of it. I said: Well, it’s the first personal computer worth criticizing. So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."

Source: http://gigaom.com/2010/01/26/alan-kay-with-the-tablet-apple-...

The iPad is no Dynabook: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynabook.

Perhaps a better name would have been:

-UndynamicBook

-iStade (See: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/stade )

Re: Apple removes Scratch from iPad/iPhone/iTouch

#36

Post by api »

lallysingh wrote: post #4
cesare wrote: post #2

IMHO, this should cause more outrage than all the developer related policies. Apple has always been a world apart, with a strong philosophy and its own priorities. But the culture around its products was all about fostering creativity. I used to say to friends: get a Mac if you want an hassle-free computer to make things (music, graphics design and even programming. Does anyone remember HyperCard, which at one point…

Yeah, that's linux now, and only for software dev creativity.

Unfortunately, it is only for software dev creativity. Nobody else can really use Linux.

(I say that as a long time Linux user... I would never give Linux to a non-techie.)

Re: Apple removes Scratch from iPad/iPhone/iTouch

#37

Post by vtail »

endergen wrote: post #35

This is not exactly what Alan Kay hoped for when he talked about the iPhone foreshadowing the iPad: "When the Mac first came out, Newsweek asked me what I [thought] of it. I said: Well, it’s the first personal computer worth criticizing. So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."…

Could you please elaborate on what is exactly 'disrespectful to history'? Dynabook concept was out there since 1968, not patented as far as I know - anyone could have 'borrowed' it and reaped the benefits.

The fact that Apple has provided a particular implementation of the concept, even with all the software restrictions etc., is a step in right direction. Competition will certainly follow.

Re: Apple removes Scratch from iPad/iPhone/iTouch

#39

Post by endergen »

vtail wrote: post #37
endergen wrote: post #35

This is not exactly what Alan Kay hoped for when he talked about the iPhone foreshadowing the iPad: "When the Mac first came out, Newsweek asked me what I [thought] of it. I said: Well, it’s the first personal computer worth criticizing. So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."…

Could you please elaborate on what is exactly 'disrespectful to history'? Dynabook concept was out there since 1968, not patented as far as I know - anyone could have 'borrowed' it and reaped the benefits. The fact that Apple has provided a particular implementation of the concept, even with all the software restrictions etc., is a step in right direction. Competition will certainly follow.

The last paragraph came across much stronger than I intended. I've removed it for now until I articulate what I intended better(or never).

Re: Apple removes Scratch from iPad/iPhone/iTouch

#40

Post by angumagu »

raganwald wrote: post #27
angumagu wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Free" is a term that always benefits from definition. How free am I to start my own business? Well, that depends on relative power, and how precarious my financial situation is, my debt load, my family responsibilities, and other things. It's not just a simple question of "is it physically possible?" I'm not sure how directly applicable that critique is to the analogy, except to say that I am well within my rights t…

> Build for free software platforms like Linux or the Web and these issues go away. Is this statement true or false? > Being outraged at Apple policies when the web is free is like being outraged at your employer when you are free to start your own business. Does this statement say you are not entitled to be outraged at Apple or at your employer? Or does it merely say that being outraged at Apple when you have altern…

Excellent rejoinders. They do support the simile.

I think I did jump to reading it as a "love it or leave it" argument, though recognizing you are more on the "come and join us on the outside". But maybe you can see it was easy to ready it as "it's a waste to get riled up about this".

Anyway, I'm quite sympathetic to the build-alternative-institutions as opposed to work-within-the-system approach. I rewrote this response a dozen times and then realized I hadn't figured out what really rankles me about this whole conversation (the larger one).

I think it's that Apple makes really good stuff, when so often it's the people making marginal or crappy stuff that are making regressive moves like these. So I get torn, because there are real efforts being made on their part to make technology human, to meet people where they are, efforts that have gone further than a lot of others. And I can't see any basic link between the closed approach and that success.

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