Dash developer's response to Apple's response • Hacker News Board

Re: Dash developer's response to Apple's response

#71

Post by 0x0 » Tue, Oct 11, 2016, 12:44 AM UTC

eridius wrote: post #65

0x0 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's particularly interesting to see that they are cross-checking registered test device UDIDs across developer accounts. Suddenly UDIDs need to be kept confidential, or a fraudster might add a high profile developer's UDID to their own developer account and then drive it into the ground. Doing iOS consultancy work for other people's dev accounts could also be more risky than expected now if you use your personal tes…

> Doing iOS consultancy work for other people's dev accounts could also be more risky than expected now if you use your personal test devices there. I don't think so. The fact that you have your device registered on two different accounts is unlikely to be sufficient to link the two accounts. It's merely one of the ways in which the accounts were linked. Using the same CC and/or bank details is another. And there's p…

I do agree with your points here. Still gives me some pause with how I treat my UDIDs going forward.

Re: Dash developer's response to Apple's response

#72

Post by 0x0 » Tue, Oct 11, 2016, 12:48 AM UTC

smackfu wrote: post #60

metrognome wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Apple representative also stated that the accounts were the same legal entity (due to the accounts being based on the same bank account). I don't think it's necessarily an error for them not to contact all involved accounts if they share something as private as a bank account.

In a lot of countries, bank account is just the standard way of paying for everything.

It could be the bank account used for receiving proceeds from app store sales they are talking about.

Re: Dash developer's response to Apple's response

#73

Post by gdrulia » Tue, Oct 11, 2016, 12:48 AM UTC

nihonde wrote: post #4

Eh? It's very vague in the blog post, but it sounds like the developer paid for an Apple account and the device which were used to create fraudulent reviews. That last looks quite bad and makes Apple's position more understandable. Why isn't the developer explaining what happened with the dev account that they opened and funded? You can't just say "I haven't done anything wrong" under those circumstances without expl…

I think the fact that he was not notified about this suspicious activity on linked account renders all this as Apple wrong doing. Doesn't matter whether Dash dev actually gave his phone to someone or actually was doing something fishy by himself, failing to notify account before closing it just doesn't seem fair to me.

Re: Dash developer's response to Apple's response

#74

Post by luketheobscure » Tue, Oct 11, 2016, 12:59 AM UTC

His summary doesn't at all reflect what was in the phone call that he posted. He says that Apple insisted he admit wrongdoing, but the representative from Apple was very clear about the three points he wanted expressed (his account was "linked to an account with fraudulent activity", he's working with Apple to unlink the accounts, and that he's working with Apple to get back into the program). He even specifically says that he won't admit any wrongdoing, and the Apple representative didn't take issue with that.

Re: Dash developer's response to Apple's response

#75

Post by markbao » Tue, Oct 11, 2016, 1:00 AM UTC

ChildOfChaos wrote: post #64

What's the issue here? Seriously..... So this guy has a lot of suspicious activity on accounts linked to him. Apple have done what they believe is the right thing to protect the integrity of the app store, in line with there own terms and conditions which the developer has agreed too. Said developer has published blog posts online that give Apple very bad publicity over this, making them look like the bad guy for try…

> which is fair after his previous posts have outright caused Apple PR issues for something that is his own fault

1. That it's his fault isn't so clear. The developer claims he was not notified that there was a linked account until two days after a ban. If you listen to the recording, he asks why he was not notified, and the representative does not give a good answer.

> Developer doesn't release said blog post, so Apple releases statement with said facts to protect themselves for further incorrect accusations.

2. If we are to believe the developer, then he actually sent a draft of the blog post to Apple, then Apple doesn't respond and instead posts a public statement.

> What is the developer trying to achieve here exactly?

3. Telling his side of the story and what happened. If we just heard the Apple side of the story and that was it, then we would assume, as many did, that the developer did do review manipulation. If we didn't hear about his side, we would have had no idea that Apple discovered the fraud on a linked account and wanted a blog post explanation to reinstate the account. Apple's statement was incomplete given everything they knew; there was no talk of "linked" accounts or anything of that sort.

> Sounds like the developer is guilty as sin for this fraud

4. Again, if we are to believe the developer, there was no intent to defraud anyone, so I think it's a stretch to say that he's "guilty as sin" for it. The only fraud would be his cousin's fraud that his account is connected to, which Apple failed to notify the developer about until two days after closing his account and after the blog post.

Re: Dash developer's response to Apple's response

#76

Post by Mithaldu » Tue, Oct 11, 2016, 1:03 AM UTC

eridius wrote: post #62

Mithaldu wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple would also be aware that various sets of contact data are attached to those accounts, but ignored them. The linking is furthermore also only done on their side via metadata, and not communicated to, or done by, the developer.

Of course the linking isn't communicated to the developer. It wouldn't be an effective anti-fraud mechanism if it was.

I'm not saying they should. I was just enumerating some ways in which notice could've reached him, but didn't, in response to the GP post trying to claim he was notified.

Re: Dash developer's response to Apple's response

#77

Post by eridius » Tue, Oct 11, 2016, 1:03 AM UTC

Mithaldu wrote: post #67

eridius wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't make any sense. Are you saying that Apple admits to certain beliefs, and to certain facts that contradict those beliefs, in the same call? Because I'm pretty sure they don't. They explain that the accounts were linked and that they don't think they made a mistake in linking those accounts. And they offered the developer a way to unlink the accounts and restore his account without the developer having to…

> Are you saying that Apple admits to certain beliefs, and to certain facts that contradict those beliefs, in the same call? Yes, and it boils down to one thing: Either the termination of his account was correct, and should be upheld; or it was wrong, and should be rescinded. There are many times in life when things are in a range of grey between black and white, but this case is entirely black and white. Either they…

This is nonsense. It was perfectly reasonable for Apple to terminate Bogdan's (the Kapeli dev) account. This doesn't mean Bogdan did something wrong. What it means is Bogdan's relative, who controls the second linked account, did something wrong. And Bogdan shares some responsibility because he set up that second account (Apple did not link the two accounts incorrectly).

And the fact that Apple's willing to work with Bogdan to unlink and reinstate his account also does not mean Apple did anything wrong. If you actually listen to the phone call the Apple rep makes it very clear that Apple believes they were correct, but that Apple is willing to offer Bogdan a way to fix things.

Re: Dash developer's response to Apple's response

#78

Post by eridius » Tue, Oct 11, 2016, 1:05 AM UTC

pkamb wrote: post #70

eridius wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm assuming it was completely independent. And when they said attempts failed, this was before the account was terminated. It's not referring to any communication with the developer post-termination.

Re-reading today's press releases, Apple's statements perhaps read as if they're delayed responses to the initial story (and are oblivious of the "my cousin did it" angle currently being talked through on the phone). But the Dash developer clearly read the press releases as responses to the ongoing communication, rejections of his draft blog post. In his view they made a new decision and went to the press with it. Ac…

I think you're correct. I too read Apple's statements today as being something prepared ahead of time (possibly even communicated to the media earlier and embargoed), wholly independently of Apple's ongoing talks with Kapeli about the blog post.

Re: Dash developer's response to Apple's response

#79

Post by Mithaldu » Tue, Oct 11, 2016, 1:05 AM UTC

IBM wrote: post #68

Mithaldu wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does not matter what they think or believe. They admit to certain facts being reality and that's all that matters.

It matters what they think or believe because you said >Apple representative states there was no wrongdoing on Kapeli's side. which is a misrepresentation of what the Apple rep said on the call.

Alright, i worded that badly. They admit to there being no wrongdoing on Kapeli's side by giving the option to reopen his account at all.

If they thought there were any wrongdoing they wouldn't even be talking to him, much less make him that offer.

Re: Dash developer's response to Apple's response

#80

Post by Mithaldu » Tue, Oct 11, 2016, 1:06 AM UTC

eridius wrote: post #77

Mithaldu wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are you saying that Apple admits to certain beliefs, and to certain facts that contradict those beliefs, in the same call? Yes, and it boils down to one thing: Either the termination of his account was correct, and should be upheld; or it was wrong, and should be rescinded. There are many times in life when things are in a range of grey between black and white, but this case is entirely black and white. Either they…

This is nonsense. It was perfectly reasonable for Apple to terminate Bogdan's (the Kapeli dev) account. This doesn't mean Bogdan did something wrong. What it means is Bogdan's relative , who controls the second linked account, did something wrong. And Bogdan shares some responsibility because he set up that second account (Apple did not link the two accounts incorrectly). And the fact that Apple's willing to work wit…

> It was perfectly reasonable

Well, we'll have to disagree. And i think Apple's actions, in giving the option of reinstatement, disagree as well, even though they claim to believe otherwise.

Edit: Oh, and even if something were to appear reasonable to do, but turned out in hindsight to be wrong, then it would still be an error.