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Dash developer's response to Apple's response

blog.kapeli.com

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Re: Dash developer's response to Apple's response

#41

Post by Mithaldu »

eridius wrote: post #37
Mithaldu wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple representative states there was no wrongdoing on Kapeli's side. Absent any wrongdoing on his side the termination is in error. Additionally they made the error of not contacting the holders of all accounts involved.

Kapeli did not commit fraud. But that does not mean Apple was incorrect in linking the two accounts. In fact, 20 seconds into the call, the Apple rep says > We don't believe that there was a mistake here, right. We don't think that we made a mistake. So no, Apple is very explicitly saying they were not in error.

They're saying they think they did not make an error. That's entirely separate from what happened in reality. Besides, even if they say they think it, that might just as well be rethoric.

Re: Dash developer's response to Apple's response

#42

Post by oldmanjay »

dragonwriter wrote: post #33

So, Apple wanted to secretly pay the developer (via removing a penalty they had imposed) to produce PR material regarding the trustworthiness of their actions in the Developer Program. That's pretty much the same thing they claimed was the basis of the account suspension, if you think about it. Guess it's a "good for me, but not for thee" kind of thing.

Generally, if you have to turn the situation inside out like a sock to make a point, it's not going to seem very convincing.

Re: Dash developer's response to Apple's response

#43

Post by Mithaldu »

IBM wrote: post #40
Mithaldu wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Listen to the phone call. He asks them why they contacted only the owner of the linked account and not the details on his account before closing his account, and Apple does not deny they failed to contact him and only says "cause they were linked". There was no other communication with Kapeli.

They also told him that, from their perspective, the two accounts belong to the same entity because they have the same payment details and test devices. There was no reason for them to know that this developer purchased an account for someone else and gave them his test devices (which sounds like an excuse anyone accused of anything gives when they're caught).

Apple would also be aware that various sets of contact data are attached to those accounts, but ignored them. The linking is furthermore also only done on their side via metadata, and not communicated to, or done by, the developer.

Re: Dash developer's response to Apple's response

#44

Post by lawnchair_larry »

jbob2000 wrote: post #30
nihonde wrote: post #4

Eh? It's very vague in the blog post, but it sounds like the developer paid for an Apple account and the device which were used to create fraudulent reviews. That last looks quite bad and makes Apple's position more understandable. Why isn't the developer explaining what happened with the dev account that they opened and funded? You can't just say "I haven't done anything wrong" under those circumstances without expl…

Did we read the same article? He used his credit card to pay for a friend's developer account and gave her one of his old devices to test on. Though he didn't mention it (sticking to facts) it looks like he was teaching someone how to make an iOS app and provided a bit of charity.

Which sounds like a load of bull to me, but is ultimately irrelevant. As if someone wjo didn't even know how to set up an account and didn't have their own devices is going to engage in fraud.

He got caught and didn't realize they would make the connection, so he's blaming someone else.

Re: Dash developer's response to Apple's response

#45

Post by metrognome »

Mithaldu wrote: post #31
eridius wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where did they say they terminated his account in error? On the recorded call they made it very clear that the accounts were linked and that Apple believes that to be accurate. The fact that they're willing to provide Kapeli with a way to get his account unlinked and reinstated does not mean they were incorrect in the first place.

Apple representative states there was no wrongdoing on Kapeli's side. Absent any wrongdoing on his side the termination is in error. Additionally they made the error of not contacting the holders of all accounts involved.

The Apple representative also stated that the accounts were the same legal entity (due to the accounts being based on the same bank account). I don't think it's necessarily an error for them not to contact all involved accounts if they share something as private as a bank account.

Re: Dash developer's response to Apple's response

#46

Post by pkamb »

According to his blog post, the developer sent his blog draft to Apple and hadn't yet heard back.

He then today refreshes Loop Insight / iMore and reads "According to Apple, all attempts to work with the developer have failed".

Was the press release really Apple's answer to the blog draft? Was it meant to torpedo the ongoing "blog negotiation", or independent of it?

Re: Dash developer's response to Apple's response

#47

Post by IBM »

Mithaldu wrote: post #31
eridius wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where did they say they terminated his account in error? On the recorded call they made it very clear that the accounts were linked and that Apple believes that to be accurate. The fact that they're willing to provide Kapeli with a way to get his account unlinked and reinstated does not mean they were incorrect in the first place.

Apple representative states there was no wrongdoing on Kapeli's side. Absent any wrongdoing on his side the termination is in error. Additionally they made the error of not contacting the holders of all accounts involved.

The Apple representative told him he doesn't need to admit to any wrongdoing which is different from saying they believe there was no wrongdoing on Kapeli's part.

Re: Dash developer's response to Apple's response

#48

Post by oldmanjay »

Mithaldu wrote: post #5

After listening to the first 2 minutes of the call, i can say with absolute confidence that Apple is straight-up blackmailing him.* I would love to hear opinions on whether this is something that could be taken to court. * They did make a mistake in not verifying whether the second account activity was actually done by Kapeli, yet they want him to claim they made no mistake, otherwise they won't reinstate Dash.

They blackmailed him into writing a blog post detailing his actions. That's pretty thin soup.

Re: Dash developer's response to Apple's response

#49

Post by eridius »

sams99 wrote: post #39

The flip side of this story is ... How would you feel if someone swiped a copy of your cc, started an apple developer account, did a bunch of review freud and then got you kicked out of the app store. I think there are some serious issues around due process with account termination. If something like this was sent originally this would be a non issue. > We detected freud from account X that is linked using your credi…

Your hypothetical doesn't match reality. The accounts were linked through more than just the CC, and the CC wasn't stolen anyway (presumably Kapeli didn't change the CC on his account, and the charge for the new account was never contested). And there's probably more than just the CC and test devices anyway, Apple probably used things like detecting that a computer used with one account was used to create the other, or the creator of the second account was currently logged in using the apple ID of the first, or something like that (but they probably don't go into detail about this because they don't want to tell fraudsters how to avoid detection).

Re: Dash developer's response to Apple's response

#50

Post by Spooky23 »

jbob2000 wrote: post #30
nihonde wrote: post #4

Eh? It's very vague in the blog post, but it sounds like the developer paid for an Apple account and the device which were used to create fraudulent reviews. That last looks quite bad and makes Apple's position more understandable. Why isn't the developer explaining what happened with the dev account that they opened and funded? You can't just say "I haven't done anything wrong" under those circumstances without expl…

Did we read the same article? He used his credit card to pay for a friend's developer account and gave her one of his old devices to test on. Though he didn't mention it (sticking to facts) it looks like he was teaching someone how to make an iOS app and provided a bit of charity.

...and mysteriously, this friend spontaneously began posting fraudulent reviews relating to this guy's app?

Sounds like bullshit to me.

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