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The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

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Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#371

Post by alistairSH »

DavideNL wrote: post #368

So am i the only one who uses a different technique? I always look in the side mirror (the one on the driver side=left side) before i open the door, where i can perfectly see incoming bikes/etc passing my car. When i got my drivers license i was taught to do this and it became a habit, so i've been doing it ever since. Works very well. fyi i'm Dutch and i've never heard of the "Dutch reach" before.

I do that - seems obvious to me, but I'm also a cyclist.

That said, when I'm in the back seat, I'm not sure if I do anything to avoid dooring.

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#372

Post by mcv »

sambe wrote: post #283
mpol wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is mostly just Amsterdam. In the rest of the Netherlands this behaviour is being frowned upon. And it is often not the Dutch people. Half the people in Amsterdam is tourists.

In Amsterdam at least, it is certainly not tourists who create most of the problems. Tourists are just a nuisance, usually clueless and going very slow and massively in the minority despite the overall popularity of the city. Dutch cyclists are substantially more likely to be running red lights without looking, at speed. They are more likely to be using their phone - meandering all over the path - or at night without…

Amsterdam cyclists certainly have a tendency to consider traffic rules more as suggestions than hard rules, but there's still a huge difference between the kind that runs a red light because there's clearly no crossing traffic, and the kind that runs a red light on a dangerous intersection without watching while on the phone.

It's a minority, but I regularly encounter cyclists who clearly want to die. The most blatant example was a mother who was trying to direct her children to ride against the direction of traffic between a bike lane and two car lanes that just came from the A10 (presumably because she had to take the next road left and didn't want to cross the busy street twice).

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#373

Post by pjmlp »

invernomut0 wrote: post #358
pjmlp wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only in The Netherlands, in most European cities actually. And if you go down to the Mediterranean countries even on motorbikes, not everyone wears on at least on city traffic. Regarding bike helmets, they usually only protect if you fall vertically on your head, making their protection capability highly questionable. They offer zero protection over getting hit by a car or falling off the bike.

If you ride a motorcycle even following the speed limit and you fall, even if you don't hit any vehicle you are risking: - hitting the ground (front or back) so having a concussion or smashing all your teeth - hitting sidewalks or guard rails Moreover the helmet lowers the noise given by air flowing, helps you see better at sunrise/sunset, protects you from insects. I think there's no good reason to avoid wearing an…

Fully agree with you regarding the motorcycle, but it won't change the habits on those countries.

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#374

Post by lucb1e »

djsumdog wrote: post #132
smartbit wrote: post #55

It is true that getting doored is not part of the Dutch vocabulary as it is not something that happens often. But there are more reasons than grabbing the handle with the opposite hand. A non extensive list: 1) Dutch car drivers all have been bicyclist before they get their driver license, everyday to school more than an hour being nothing being frowned on. 2) Major transit bike routes have separate bike lanes, the t…

The amount of bicycles in The Netherlands is absolutely surreal. Both in major cities and out in the suburbs, bicycles are everywhere. I also find it interesting the Dutch rarely ever wear helmets. Large cities in Germany or the UK or anywhere else I've seen cannot compare to the magnitude of people on bicycles in The Netherlands.

> The amount of bicycles in The Netherlands is absolutely surreal. [...] I also find it interesting the Dutch rarely ever wear helmets.

Perspective, perspective. The amount of bicycles in Germany (which is next-door) is surreal to me (so few) and I find it interesting that people wear helmets. They're such a bother and don't help your scraped arm or broken teeth if you land wrong. The odds of hitting your head on a curb seem about as slim to me as when you're walking.

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#375

Post by dalke »

ekidd wrote: post #356
Symbiote wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'd rather live to see the next day than care about what a helmet looks like. Do you wear one while walking? Or hiking? There's also an increased risk of brain injury from these activities. Most people I know don't wear one, because the combination of the discomfort, hassle, inconvenience and appearance aren't worth the perceived low increased risk of cycling compared to, for example, walking.

I wear a helmet for bicycling, in-line skating, snowboarding and whitewater kayaking. In the case of the first three sports, the helmet has saved me from nasty head hits: - Two over-the-handlebars crashes on my bike at relatively low speed (one when mountain biking). - A low tree limb and several backwards falls when inline skating. - Countless backwards falls when learning to snowboard. For whitewater kayaking, a he…

Do you wear a helmet when going for a run? What about going for a walk?

Most Dutch riders are cycling slower than a running pace.

I noticed that you categorized bicycling as a sport. For most Dutch people, bicycling is not a sport but a form of transportation. Commuting by car is a form of transportation, just like Formula 1 is a sport form which uses cars. The safety requirements are quite different between those two, just like they are different between those who mountain bike as a sport and those who use a city bicycle to get groceries.

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#376

Post by kutkloon7 »

ralfn wrote: post #366
ptaipale wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A more interesting statistic would be: how many of those deaths would have been prevented by a bicycle helmet? If we assume that this Canadian study would apply as such to Netherlands: http://www.cmaj.ca/content/early/2012/10/15/cmaj.120988.full... the figure would be (71/129)×185×(100-65)% = 35 of these people would have not have been killed. Of course, the figures are probably not quite right for Netherlands. For…

>And the physics of falling off your bike are not that different and the ground is about as hard in Canada as in Netherlands. You would think that would be true, but no. 1. The ground in Holland is flat. 2. The bike is heavy. 3. The bike is the type where you are sitting up (not leaning forward like a race bike). So, when a dutch person bikes they are going no faster than 15 km/h. When they stretch their legs they ar…

A guy I saw a few days ago got one of those heavy chain-type locks in his frontwheel while riding his bike a few days ago. Of course, his bike stopped instantly. He was carrying a painting, so driving with one hand. Amazingly, he didn't even fall to the ground. It really takes a lot of effort to land on the top of your head; I imagine that being hit or run over by a car causes way, way more serious accidents.

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#377

Post by lucb1e »

wobbleblob wrote: post #236
djsumdog wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The amount of bicycles in The Netherlands is absolutely surreal. Both in major cities and out in the suburbs, bicycles are everywhere. I also find it interesting the Dutch rarely ever wear helmets. Large cities in Germany or the UK or anywhere else I've seen cannot compare to the magnitude of people on bicycles in The Netherlands.

If you've tried driving in the Netherlands, you know why so many people prefer to ride a bike instead. Well maintained, but narrow and extremely busy roads, densely packed with tiny vehicles. Wearing a helmet while cycling in the Dutch bike lanes is a bit like wearing a helmet while walking on the side walk. I used to only wear it while racing. Since I had a bad crash after being hit in the eye by an insect, I wear a…

> I had a bad crash after being hit in the eye by an insect

How did that happen, did you reflexively close both eyes and jerk on the handlebar or something?

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#378

Post by imjustsaying »

johanvts wrote: post #214
deanclatworthy wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Odd that you say this about helmets. It only takes one mistake, one cyclist not paying attention, one mechanical fault, one swerving car or an obstacle in the road - and you'll be landing face first into the tarmac wishing you wore a helmet. 185 cyclists died last year in the Netherlands [1]. I wonder how many of those weren't wearing a helmet. I also found this interesting article [2] going into a lot more detail on…

In Denmark. The percentage of people here wearing helmets seems to be dropping again after having been on the rise for the past few years (based on my anecdotal evidence of biking around copenhagen), but it's still relatively rare. I know at least 3 people who had simple accidents while not wearing helmets and while they did not die they suffered severe concussions that take years to fully recover from (if ever). One…

Do bike helmets protect against concussions?

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#379

Post by lucb1e »

saiya-jin wrote: post #359
kristofferR wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "When you are not in The Netherlands you should most definitely wear a helmet no matter what kind of bike." Why? It's actually not statistically safer.

Anecdotal evidence - i never wore helmet when growing up, nobody did. once had an accident on small bmx bike when I fell head first on tarmac, but didn't land on head and apart from scratches and being shaken all good (if parents only knew...). few years ago decided to buy new cross country (ie all-rounder) one, lightweight and blazing fast for what it is. Decided to go for a helmet for the first time. After 2 weeks,…

So, in summary, a helmet is a good idea if you drive full-speed around corners where you have no idea if it's clear?
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