A decentralized web would give power back to the people online • Hacker News Board

Re: A decentralized web would give power back to the people online

#311

Post by dredmorbius » Mon, Oct 10, 2016, 9:59 AM UTC

schoen wrote: post #278

dredmorbius wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm actually fairly certain the fictitious entry concept exists in some shape or form. Even name+company@example.com addresses used for email registration are tells of misuse of registration information. Various honeypot traps utilise similar elements. I'm all but certain financial institutions have at least tracking, if not fictitious entry, accounts seeded within various data lists whose use triggers alerts, though…

Huh, now I'm thinking Cliff Stoll did something like this in The Cuckoo's Egg with making up a fake project that intruders then wrote to ask for more information about... or am I misremembering?

Re: A decentralized web would give power back to the people online

#312

Post by simonh » Mon, Oct 10, 2016, 10:26 AM UTC

antocv wrote: post #307

chestnut-tree wrote: post #35

A real barrier to a decentralised web is the difficulty of installing software on a server. I know that sounds really mundane and inconsequential in the broader debate about a decentralised web, but consider the following... Imagine if installing a server-side chat app, message board, project management app, or CMS were as easy as installing a desktop app. In a desktop app, it's usually one click to start the install…

> A real barrier to a decentralised web is the difficulty of installing software on a server. LOL. Decentralised would mean the user installs software on his/her desktop/phone and it works as you think a server works. Thats all there is to it. If you make "installing on a server" - somebody else computer easier, its not gonna be detentralised. Youll have shareing of peoples "apps" on a single server, and eventually C…

> Running "a server" is not any more difficult than running any other app, on Android or on Linux, the difference is pacman -S kwrite or pacman -S lighttpd, or picking "primitive ftpd" app and running it.

Which directory does the ftpd app store it's data in, and on which partition? How do I get alerted if I'm running low on space and what do I do if I am? Is the data backed up and what is my disaster recovery process? What port is it running on and how do I connect to it? BTW, insta-fail because we should be using secure ftp. Is it using encrypted communications and how do I install a certificate and share public keys? What about configuring access through the firewall? etc, etc.

Re: A decentralized web would give power back to the people online

#313

Post by jamesrcole » Mon, Oct 10, 2016, 10:27 AM UTC

coldtea wrote: post #233

zer0gravity wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1 . > It is these "decentralized" people who are out of touch, not the ordinary people. This statement seems a bit condescending, just saying.. 2. In my post I'm not trying to make value judgements, but just offer a possible explanation why things are the way they are, and who may have better chances to change them. 3. I don't think that we should/can decentralize everything, but I do believe there is a worrying tend…

> This statement seems a bit condescending, just saying.. It's usually a safer bet to dismiss the assumptions of some small group of people than think that the whole general population are idiots.

If that was really true, it's be a safer bet to dismiss what experts in a given field think and just go with what the uninformed population's opinion is on the matter.

E.g. to dismiss scientific opinion on a topic to go instead with lay opinions on it

Re: A decentralized web would give power back to the people online

#314

Post by chriswarbo » Mon, Oct 10, 2016, 10:36 AM UTC

Rexxar wrote: post #102

fredsir wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many rely on Github for more than source control hosting and issues. It's really not a non-issue.

I would like to have some basic issue tracking in git like in fossil (www.fossil-scm.org if you don't know, by the creator of sqlite). It's a shame that git has eclipsed all other options.

You can use distributed bug trackers with git, like https://github.com/tst2005/nitpick or http://www.bugseverywhere.org

Re: A decentralized web would give power back to the people online

#315

Post by verbify » Mon, Oct 10, 2016, 10:44 AM UTC

adekok wrote: post #88

chestnut-tree wrote: post #35

A real barrier to a decentralised web is the difficulty of installing software on a server. I know that sounds really mundane and inconsequential in the broader debate about a decentralised web, but consider the following... Imagine if installing a server-side chat app, message board, project management app, or CMS were as easy as installing a desktop app. In a desktop app, it's usually one click to start the install…

> A real barrier to a decentralised web is the difficulty of installing software on a server. Also, economies of scale. If people used a decentralized service called "UnFaceBook", the total cost of servers, administration, etc. would dwarf the cost of Facebook running their data centres. From a business perspective, it's just not feasible. Hmm... perhaps everyone running their own systems is, in fact, doable. Most pe…

> Most people have smart phones which are much more powerful than servers from 6 years ago.

This isn't even remotely true.

The most powerful servers from 6 years ago is a xeon x7560, which has a 40% higher passmark score than even the best enthusiast consumer-level cpu on the market today (an i7 6700k), never mind even the most expensive smartphone on the market.

https://cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Xeon+X7560+%40+2....

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i7-6700K...

Re: A decentralized web would give power back to the people online

#316

Post by chriswarbo » Mon, Oct 10, 2016, 10:56 AM UTC

1propionyl wrote: post #144

milansuk wrote: post #141

I think that article is missing one important thing. "Web 3.0" needs a killer app! Something which is not simple to duplicate in current centralized web and still It's very attractive to web users.

It still pains me to see that Mozilla Persona failed.

I see a lot of HNers lamenting the loss of persona. The code's available, so what's the major issue preventing its continued use?

Is it the use of de facto addresses, like the fallback login.persona.org? Couldn't that be mitigated by either establishing a new de facto standard (either commercial or community run), or by adding a fallback field to the protocol?

Re: A decentralized web would give power back to the people online

#317

Post by type0 » Mon, Oct 10, 2016, 11:01 AM UTC

SXX wrote: post #291

cocktailpeanuts wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "People don't understand" is a condescending statement and is exactly the reason why the people who try to build these decentralized systems never succeed, because they don't even understand why people use information silos. If you really think that's the problem and you think you know better than other people, you should quit using every single centralized system out there, like your bank (they take your money a…

> It is these "decentralized" people who are out of touch, not the ordinary people. There are plenty of countries in the world where "ordinary people" and "political active people" are two different groups. Ordinary people there have better things to worry about than politics. Many of them also know what exactly going, but do nothing to prevent it. Usually this end up really really bad.

> There are plenty of countries in the world where "ordinary people" and "political active people" are two different groups.

These "ordinary people" often end up allowing "extraordinary" things to happen to these "political active people".

Re: A decentralized web would give power back to the people online

#318

Post by type0 » Mon, Oct 10, 2016, 11:09 AM UTC

dsacco wrote: post #162

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're making the argument from apathy. Sure, there are a ton of people who don't care . But what interest of theirs are you defending? "Don't care either way" is not an objection to change. Ambivalence about privacy is not the same as a preference to give it up.

I'm defending the idea that they are disinterested in change not because they are ignorant, but because they are fully aware and accepting of what they're giving up. I am not arguing that they don't care either way. If they otherwise don't care, but they appreciate the usability and convenience features of these products, then that is an objection to change if they won't get the same features in more open, private al…

> not because they are ignorant, but because they are fully aware and accepting of what they're giving up.

Do they know what they are giving up?!

Re: A decentralized web would give power back to the people online

#319

Post by type0 » Mon, Oct 10, 2016, 11:35 AM UTC

JonnieCache wrote: post #87

api wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ISPs don't do that. That's your NAT/firewall. Has anyone ever actually seen an ISP network that filters local traffic to other ISP endpoints? I'm not even sure why they would do that. DDOS almost always targets big things in the cloud so it would not help there. Here (SoCal) traceroute to a host in the same local neighborhood is three hops.

A lot of ISPs have (probably unenforcable) clauses in their ToS saying your can't run services.

I can attest to that, my previous ISP had explicitly stated that running web or other file server was not allowed - I'm not exactly sure if TOS was in violation of my consumer rights but the fact is that they could cut me off if I were going to set up a server... I mean even for personal use (it didn't say anything about running a server business)

Re: A decentralized web would give power back to the people online

#320

Post by type0 » Mon, Oct 10, 2016, 11:55 AM UTC

TaylorAlexander wrote: post #232

c22 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saying they don't have a choice is sorta disingenuous. Almost everyone was born with the required organs. Most of the tech has free alternatives and instruction exists in numerous freely accessible and easily digestible blog posts and YouTube videos. Saying the users have no choice in this matter is like saying a lot of users can't choose to vote because they're not registered and they don't know where the polls are.

Well, I certainly disagree. Technically you are correct. In a vacuum any person, even my own mother, could endeavor to learn these things and do them. But when you put a person's life in to context, how do you expect a working mother of three to just learn the tools? What if she has the remotest of computer literacy? That is, she could operate Facebook but no more? Then is it reasonable to expect her to learn how to…

> What if she has the remotest of computer literacy? That is, she could operate Facebook but no more? Then is it reasonable to expect her to learn how to administer her own server?

She wouldn't have to, it's all about the money and the wish to be dependent or independent. There are web hosting as well as consulting companies that can setup private social network for one time fee, with automated backups and all.

To me, when I hear that some "computer illiterate" person "learns to use facebok" it kinda sounds reminiscent of hearing that someone learns to make crack from cocaine. Is it useful - maybe, is it good for society - eh I don't think so. I rather see them "learn" how to use sandstorm...